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3bet early limper with flat on direct left, do you cbet here?
hawkeyeK9
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August 2, 2011 - 12:02 pm
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This tourney is a $16.50 1.5K on Lock.

Early position limper is a weak player that limps a lot then folds post flop. The villian behind me is running 30/7 so seems to flat a lot.

I am one to almost always follow up my bets with cbets. I was thinking after the hand that this might be a spot that it just is not going to work often enough to put the cbet out. Villian is gonna flat cbet a lot I think then I will have to give up usually. Do you guys cbet anyway?

Merge No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t50.00/t100.00 Blinds – 8 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

12plund123 (MP1): t5265.00 52.65 BBs
Hero (MP2): t2860.00 28.60 BBs
Paulie0078 (CO): t2638.00 26.38 BBs
gandolfo (BTN): t5158.00 51.58 BBs
dabeee (SB): t1460.00 14.60 BBs
bummy111 (BB): t1335.00 13.35 BBs
wpsirnh (UTG): t4540.00 45.40 BBs
KAEDIAN1 (UTG+1): t2190.00 21.90 BBs

Pre Flop: (t150) Hero is MP2 with 3 of hearts 3 of clubs
1 fold, KAEDIAN1 calls t100, 1 fold, Hero raises to t275, Paulie0078 calls t275, 3 folds, KAEDIAN1 calls t175

Flop: (t975) K of hearts 7 of hearts J of diamonds (3 players)
KAEDIAN1 checks, Hero bets t365.00, Paulie0078 calls t365, KAEDIAN1 folds

FkCoolers
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August 2, 2011 - 12:53 pm
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I probably just limp behind pre and play no set no bet poker here. 

As played this flop hits a really big part of calling ranges so I'd just c/f I guess. 

I think limping behind is optimal, though. 

hawkeyeK9
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August 2, 2011 - 1:28 pm
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FkCoolers said:

I probably just limp behind pre and play no set no bet poker here. 

As played this flop hits a really big part of calling ranges so I'd just c/f I guess. 

I think limping behind is optimal, though. 

I like isolating the weak player, it was unfortunate for me to get flatted behind. Flatting gives people behind opportunity to 3bet and squeeze a lot with 2 limpers in pot.

terbet11
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August 2, 2011 - 3:38 pm
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I think the way played a c bet is in order, but I think you have to be prepared to double barrel due to the fact the flop hits a lot of the villain(s) range.  I am not upset either with a c/f, but betting is the only way you are going to win this pot post.  IMO, I just fold pre due to your stack size because it seems as if you are just going to be called somewhat wide oop and 3s just get you in trouble. I don't like limping behind bc you don't have the odds to set mine imo.  Best of luck at the tables.

brooksea
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August 2, 2011 - 3:45 pm
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I think that when you raise pre flop you have to cbet the king on the board.  With these stacks I tend to call behind pre and set mine here usually, but if there was a lot of 3 betting going on behind you I like the raise.  Thanks for the post.

bennymacca
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August 2, 2011 - 9:46 pm
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that board really smashes their range, especially paulie's which will consist of a lot of broadway type cards i would think. there are SOOOO many draws and single pair hands that will call here. so although i like the iso pre, i just dont think you can cbet here unless you are prepared to triple barrel, which is pretty spewy to say the least. 

 

i really dont think it's that weak to cf such a horrible flop. 

FkCoolers
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August 2, 2011 - 11:15 pm
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If we're gonna ISO (still do not think we should, but also still weighing choices) I think it also needs to be larger than just 275 since our hand flops so poorly. 

This is why I think the ISO is a bad move pre-antes. You'd need to go at least 350 to get folds.

With 275 you're just sticking in a pot sweetener with a hand that never wants to be multiway. 

rivermen123
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August 3, 2011 - 1:48 am
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If the guy to your left is flatting a lot, he's also calling you on this flop with a lot of hands that won't stand up to a turn barrel, but he's also not going to fold any king on any street no matter what.  To get him off a jack you'd probably have to empty the clip.

 

This is probably a limp behind pre most of the time.  Early position limper usually doesn't have the kind of range that will stack off when you hit a set anyway.  Having the initiative by isolating is good, but with these stack sizes it's going to be tough if you don't take it down on the flop.

 

(An argument could be made for folding this pre actually.)

thedonator716
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August 3, 2011 - 2:54 am
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I like to ISO pre to take the lead post and if we were HU I would def. cbet here, but with the flat behind it bloats the pot so a failed cbet here takes a bigger piece of your stack and leaves you with around 20-21bb. Plus, like others have stated it's less likely to take it down on this flop vs 2 players and so many made hands/draws possible that can call or raise. I think I just give up on the flop myself. Now, is it an easy fold if the BB shoves pre and you're getting 2.2:1 to call or do you risk half your stack here?

hawkeyeK9
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August 3, 2011 - 10:12 am
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thedonator716 said:

I like to ISO pre to take the lead post and if we were HU I would def. cbet here, but with the flat behind it bloats the pot so a failed cbet here takes a bigger piece of your stack and leaves you with around 20-21bb. Plus, like others have stated it's less likely to take it down on this flop vs 2 players and so many made hands/draws possible that can call or raise. I think I just give up on the flop myself. Now, is it an easy fold if the BB shoves pre and you're getting 2.2:1 to call or do you risk half your stack here?

To your question donator, it would be an easy fold because he is weak and would not be doing it wide at all. I like giving up on this flop also since it is multi-way and a loose opponent behind me. Thanks for the thoughts.

hapetimes
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August 4, 2011 - 6:54 am
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To your credit Hawkeye, you have a good read on your opponent kaedian and are using that (as opposed to your actual hand) to take advantage of him. A perfectly acceptable play given the table image you have of him.

Most of the time you will be HU and in position with a weak opponent who will check fold most flops, very ideal.

I think limping behind here is also ok

As soon as the play becomes 3 handed and we are not last to act i'm c/f this flop. As everyone pointed out this could hit either of their ranges pretty good and continuing will only damage our stack for future hands.

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