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$3000 gtd , triple barrel bluff
folding_aces_pre_yo
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January 12, 2015 - 9:23 pm
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#Game No : 654218524

***** 888poker Hand History for Game 654218524 *****

$10/$20 Blinds No Limit Holdem – ***

Tournament #65268108 $20 + $2 – Table #4 9 Max (Real Money)

Seat 1 is the button

Total number of players : 9

Seat 1: MasonSpb ( $4,990 )

Seat 2: kuladesha ( $4,980 )

Seat 3: Regina_888 ( $5,000 )

Seat 4: VierZwei ( $5,000 )

Seat 5: Egor699 ( $5,000 )

Seat 6: lplayUpay ( $4,948 )

Seat 7: london_ace ( $5,000 )

Seat 9: NukoNaka ( $5,000 )

Seat 10: Phantom0308 ( $5,082 )

kuladesha posts small blind [$10]

Regina_888 posts big blind [$20]

** Dealing down cards **

Dealt to london_ace [ Aspade, Jdiamond ]

VierZwei folds

Egor699 folds

lplayUpay folds

london_ace raises [$40]

NukoNaka folds

Phantom0308 calls [$40]

MasonSpb folds

kuladesha folds

Regina_888 calls [$20]

** Dealing flop ** [ 4spade, 7spade, Qspade ]

Regina_888 checks

london_ace bets [$97]

Phantom0308 calls [$97]

Regina_888 folds

** Dealing turn ** [ Qclub ]

london_ace bets [$243]

Phantom0308 calls [$243]

** Dealing river ** [ 9club ]

london_ace bets [$607]

Phantom0308 folds

 

Hey

 

 It's the early stages of the tourney, so no reads on V.

 

I decided to go for a triple barrel bluff , first i have one of the best bluffing candiates and secondly v has given us a indication that they've got a marginal hand or a draw. Pretty much capped their range. If they had a flush on the flop i'm pretty sure they would either raise or at least raise the turn , so i discounted flush from there range. although the turn card was not a great one , i decided to continue with my bluff and went for a third barrel on the river. 

 

just wondering if my sizing should of been smaller? if they have whiffed draws we could bet small , but i also think they could of floated with those marginal hands like 88/TT/JJ , which makes me wanna go on the larger side.

 

thoughts?

StrugLife
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January 12, 2015 - 11:01 pm
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I wish this converter displayed the pot on each street, kinda surprised it doesnt, or that im just noticing this now.

Without reading the pot I’m going to start off by saying on the flop, you should bet 70% pot or more. You make this bet to maximize fold equity, and because you want as many chips in the pot as possible so when you hit you can make the most chips. Also you should be bluffing a fair amount in this spot (at least I am), because I’m opening fairly wide so deep this early, and will miss this flop the vast majority of the time. So in essence I will be CBing here a lot hoping to just take it down. When you are making a bet, ask your self, are there a lot of bluffs in my range? If so you should bet bigger to make their calls less profitable. If you have fewer bluffs in your range you should bet smaller. Obviously, this logic will not apply everywhere (as almost all logic will not apply in every spot in this game of poker), so use your judgment.

On the turn the queens hits his range a fair amount, and now you can basically guarantee yourself he aint going to fold to a triple barrel if hes got a queen. That being said you still have equity VS a queen. You have very few bluffs in your range on the turn at this point, so I would bet small (aprox 35-45% pot), and I would be making this same sizing with a queen as well obviously. He should be very suspicious and not raise you light here at all with your line so far, If he raises you depending on his sizing I may call (not sure about it though need feedback here for sure). If he calls a small double barrel he he will havce a queen aproxamitly 60% of the time, other times he will have medium pairs, sometimes with flush outs sometimes not, and he will have AxJd.

River betting again is thin, some players will give you a lot of respect, some will not. He never folds a Q, so your hoping to foldout a pair medium pair. Yeah betting the river is thin man, I would shut down.

theginger45

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January 13, 2015 - 2:26 am
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I think the 3-barrel is likely to be pretty good here, so no major complaints. As far as sizing goes, I really can’t tell how big you made it in comparison to the pot, so I’m afraid I’ll have to delay input on that.

StrugLife specifically asked me to comment on his thought process here, so I will. I think the first part about the flop is accurate, about adapting sizing according to the number of bluffs in our range, but I disagree that this is a good flop to be cbetting on as a bluff very often. With KJhh or 98dd or AcTh here, or something equivalent, I’m just giving up. I think 70% of pot or more is an excessively large cbet for this reason. Monochrome flops are not great flops to cbet with a wide range, and Queen high ones aren’t as good as Ace or King high ones either. I would bet about 55-60% of pot on the flop.

Conversely, I’m also not a fan of going for a very small bet on the turn. If you bet 35% of pot here, you can virtually guarantee that the villain is folding exactly none of his range, since the Queen is a card that doesn’t really change the board at all. While there aren’t many bluffs in your range, there are still some of them, and you want to bet big enough to at least put pressure on a hand like 87dd or 6s6d to the point where they would be concerned about a river bet. I would bet between 50% and 65% of pot, depending on how passive the villain is in general – the more passive, the bigger we can bet with our whole range, since we need to apply extra pressure to get folds with our bluffs, and we can get more value with our nuts.

I would like to know where you got “if he has a small double barrel he will have a queen approximately 60% of the time” from, to be honest. I’m not saying it’s necessarily wrong, I would just like to know where you got the figure. Because if he only has a Queen 60% of the time going into the river, betting around half pot as a bluff is a great play, since it only needs to work 33% of the time in order to profit, and if he’s folding the other 40% of his range that’s not a Queen, we’re all good on that front. In actuality, I suspect he has a Queen far less than 60% of the time when he check-calls the turn, since he might raise with his stronger Queens sometimes and he’s not folding his weaker hands to a smaller turn bet either. This makes the river bluff more profitable. I actually think betting small on turn and then giving up is significantly -EV here, since villain has quite a few hands in his range that will specifically check-call a small turn bet and then fold almost all rivers. The smaller you bet on the turn, the more inclined you should be to bet river.

The one other thing I would mention about this hand is that I really dislike minraising at 250bb deep here. Everyone has their own theories about preflop raising, but personally I prefer raising bigger at deeper stack depths, especially in the early stages when the very worst players in the tournament are still around and can give you more of their chips. 3xing here is fine, 4xing is probably okay too, and even 5xing might not be the worst. It’s a $2 tourney, so you’ll get value from bad players who aren’t paying attention.

folding_aces_pre_yo
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January 13, 2015 - 2:59 am
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@ginger , it’s a $22 tourney lol.

sorry about not putting in the total pot size , hero bet 3 quarters of the pot on each street , pretty much.

Foucault

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January 13, 2015 - 10:00 am
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Your logic about having an ideal bluffing hand applies to the turn but not to the river, I think. You mention bluffing vs missed draws, but you beat most if not all missed draws anyway. You obviously aren’t getting him to fold a Q, and even with two on the board there may well be more of those in his range than the couple of medium pocket pairs that he may or may not fold anyway.

folding_aces_pre_yo
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January 13, 2015 - 12:59 pm
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yeah i was kinda thinking the same thing andrew. I was thinking that if v has whiffed draw's there no need to bet   but like i said i dont think his range is only draws he could have a pair which we can get him to fold IMO when we 3 barrel or would u prefer to just c/c river? since our hand likely may be best.

 

Also how do we determine how often v is going to turn up with strong hand here i.e.  (trips/flush) or a bluff? doesnt this go back to making v indifferent to bluffing? or something…

StrugLife
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January 14, 2015 - 8:35 am
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Thank you Ginger.  I appreciate it.

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