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June 3, 2012
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Posted this on twoplustwo but didn't seem to spark much discussion so will try here. Would be interested in thoughts on both streets for this.
Had just come back from dinner to blinds of 600/1200 with a 200 ante. I had good players to my left so I couldn't be as active as I wanted to be and was getting a little short stacked. I definitely had an aggressive image as I had been 3-betting the most at the table, gotten into a 3b/5b spot against a good player, etc.
Villain 2 is newer to the table, and he had that vibe where you can tell he's not a fish. Don't have too much of a read on him, he had opened a few pots around 2.2-2.4x pretty standard, his last open from the CO I reshoved 20bb over him from the BB and he let it go. He is playing around 40-50k I think.
Villain 1 I have been playing with all day and recognize him from blogs and stuff but I don't know his name. He is very loose and splashy, has been drinking a few beers, generally playing well post flop, but definitely sticky and goes with his reads. He will raise flops when he thinks the bettors range doesn't hit the board as he had raised a cbet with AJo on 335cc and called a cold 3 bet jam and held against T9cc earlier on. He has also been 3 betting the other good aggressive player at the table. He is the big blind in this hand with a big stack 80k+
I have about 27k to start the hand. Villain 2 limps UTG +2, folds around to me. This is pretty awkward for me as I haven't seen this player limp before, and could possibly be trapping. I have the 7
7
in the CO with a stack size I don't really want to raise/call or raise/fold. I decide to limp behind to try and see a cheap flop as the button was a tighter aggressive player and I'm comfortable letting it go against her raising range. I also felt like limping lets me play better against Villain 2, I can stab at flops in position, etc. SB completes and Villain 1 checks his option.
Flop (6600) 53
2
Sb checks, Villain 1 checks, Villain 2 checks, Hero bets 3200, SB folds, Villain 1 raises to 6700, Villain 2 folds, Hero ???
June 8, 2012
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I either iso pre or just fold and preserve my stack. we dont see too many favorable flops with 77, it doesnt play well multi, and we dont have a stack to wiggle with and play small ball. im close between iso and fold. but because you havent seen villian 2 limp before I am leaning towards folding. it feels nitty……but i really dont like limping here.
August 8, 2013
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Why not just raise and try to take the pot down pre? If you get limp re-raised then so be it, you failed to define your hand as anything pre, then bet and got check raised and had to toss your hand even with an over pair I'm guessing?
You defined a very scared way of thinking preflop, scared of the guy who limps, scared of the TAG in the blinds etc which made you limp your 77, then on the flop you forgot your whole reasoning for limping and bet out opening the door to exactly what you feared pre flop.
If you aren't comfortable playing 77 as an overpair then you should consider just folding it pre or checking behind on flops which most players are not going to give you credit for hitting. Does that makes sense? People are going to check raise you all day with air, gutters, As all day and make you fold your value and there's not much you can do because on that board you are representing spade draws, hands like 65s or 67s etc. and you don't really have a calling range when you get check raised in my opinion.
June 3, 2012
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I was only worried about the limper, but he folds after the flop. When people play a certain way and then do something sort of out of character for them, it sets off alarm bells. I know I have a wide looking range here as I've been very aggressive, so I had no plans of folding to the big blind who is also aggro and raises his draws (or even air if he thinks you're full of it). Wanted some confirmation that shoving over his raise here wasn't completely spewy. Obviously his range will also have all the nutted hands since he is the big blind and can have any 2.
As for preflop what size are we raising and how are we responding if the BTN/BB/limper 3bet?
September 29, 2012
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I don't see limping behind here as that bad. Granted, you don't want to burn many chips here, but you are in late position, with a speculative hand, getting over 20:1 implied odds to flat, so flatting in position in a multi-way pot with a speculative hand is never really a bad choice when you are getting the right implied odds.
77 isolating a EP limper who does not have a history of limping is also very marginal. If he back raises you probably have to fold. If he's been a frequent limper, then yes, go for the iso raise.
As for the LAG player in the blinds, I think we'd have to call off if we iso and the EP player folds, since he's capable of 3 betting light.
As played though, what can he have that you still beat? A5/66/flush draws (but FDs with 2 overs is a favorite at the moment)/straight draws. How many of these hands does he play this way? With the exception of A5 and 66, all of his range has equity against our hand even if we are ahead. Of course, he can have suited connectors in his range and small pairs which may ahve you crushed at this point.
Being a live game with a good structure, I think I may fold this spot here.
September 29, 2012
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I just ran an equity with the UTG+2 88 – 22, ATs – A2s, KQs – 64s, and KJs – 75s.
If he raises all of his draws and top pair+ from that range, you are 46%.
If he flats his one pairhands and standard draws and only raises combo draws and big hands you are only 31% to win.
Obviously, if he flats the hands that are flipping with you and only raises the big hands you are crushed: 13%.
That holds true if he was attempting the limp/backraise with Aa or KK as well: 12%
All in all, we are only hoping to be in a near coin flip against his range if he's getting aggressive with even his marginal hands here.
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