To be honest you put yourself in a bad spot here. The best thing you could have done is simply ship or fold preflop, you only have 12 BB Im shoving. The BB played poorly be flating the shove by the small stack which leads me to believe his hand isnt that strong and we are probably ahead of his range but we called instead of jamming again making it more difficult to play as the pot is getting bloated preflop.

Well personally I would assume that we have a dead pot …The undiscussed course of action would typically be to check it down since the SB was such a short stack and get him out.  But you bet and if you were going to bet you have OESD and an over. I bet about half on flop with the A on the turn Im jamming.  Although I prefer to have simply checked the flop if we flatted pre. His (BB) range is super wide, I think he called for two reasons one the odds he was getting and the chance for the two of you to knock the SB out. So at the river I think we are probably beat and our play cost us about half our stack.

Hope I didnt come off sounding too rough, its a good hand to discuss.

Oh im sorry your right for some reason I thought you acted first.  That changes it a lot  I am somewhat aggressive so I would probably flat the flop bet like you did and then jam over his turn bet. I dont give hime credit for flopping a straight, if he did so be it. On that turn we have TP and a nice draw if we shove the only thing that could call us is a set or two pair both of which we are drawing live against. Plus our shove with the small stack dead in the pot shows huge strength.  Worse case scenario he busts us both out and your probably good for second, but we win the hand right there we are much closer in stake size going HU.  But again I play very aggro.

i think calling PF is fine for such a great price.

on the flop i’d like to fold given your reads, but with such a great price i feel like folding is probably a mistake, although i’m not certain cause given the reads i feel like a pretty significant amount of the time we’re drawing to a 5.

on the turn, though, i think you’re leveling yourself in thinking that you’re ahead of any of his range considering your reads of the player. he just isn’t going to continue to barrel with one-pair hands worse than yours and he probably just checks his straight draws at this point–if he was even betting them to begin with. i like folding the turn.

the river is pretty gross. we have the idiot end of a 4-card straight on the board and a player who you’ve seen happy to check down in spots like this just went bet-bet-bet, with the last bet being significantly bigger than the first two. not sure if i’d fold in-game but i’d be surprised if it’s a good call.

Hagbard Celine said:

i think calling PF is fine for such a great price.

 

I disagree.  Being this short I lean towards just a straight open shove pre. 

bigdogpckt5s said:

Wein said:

 Hagbard Celine said:

i think calling PF is fine for such a great price.

 

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I disagree.  Being this short I lean towards just a straight open shove pre.
 

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plus 2

pkppp said:

The first problem is looking at one tournement rather than the big picture.  Playing not to get third instead of playing to win will cost you alot of money in the long run.  That thought process caused you to min raise instead of shove preflop.  If your not going to shove, then you have to fold that hand preflop. 

The SB is shoving with almost any 2 there with him being so shortstacked, 2.7BBs if he folds, and now is in a position to triple up to 9BBs.  With your min raise you have made the SB shove which in turn is giving the CL in the BB 4-1 odds to call the SB allin.  The BB knows how cautious your play is, so he knows 99% of the time hes gonna get to see the flop with just calling the SB.  He also knows, unless you hit a big hand, your likely to check down the river to eliminate the shortstack.  After calling the additional 7900 you have now committed about 25% of your stack in a hand your most likely to fold to any decent size bet.

As for your read of the BB on the flop you are right, he wouldnt not make the min bet without a strong hand.  You can eliminate alot of those hands from him just calling prefllop and his min bet on the flop.   JJ, QQ, KK he is definitely reraising preflop.  Most likely also reraising preflop with 1010 to isolate.  He could just call preflop, but on the flop he would not be min betting with an overpair and openended straight draw.  As for 77 88 99 he would bet the flop heavy to isolate the SB allin to win the almost 70k pot.  He knows from previous hands that unless you have j10, which more than likely you don't, your folding to any decent size bet there.  Even if you have J10 he can't be eliminated and still has 2 streets to catch his boat and take down the tournement on that hand.  Based on your reads of him on previous hands, the only hands realistically he has where he would min bet would be A10,910, or J10

The problem with the call on the flop goes back to you not willing to get all your chips in the pot.  Your drawing to a 5 and 10 and even then not sure you would make the call for all your chips with how cautious you were playing.  So by calling the flop your just throwing those chips away.

The turn you have to fold with your unwilliingness to get all your chips in.  By calling the turn you now have 50% of your stack in the pot and really can't fold the ensuing river bet.

In short, play to win.  If you don't, you put yourself in terrible positions and cost yourself money.

Thanks pkppp – I agree with the people who are saying I should have shoved pre, I guess maybe in my OP I should have been more specific as to what I was looking for as to feedback.

After the tourney was over and I looked at the hand, I felt like the right move was to shove pre. I was less confident about what the proper thinking was once I found myself facing the flop bet +turn +river. I was hoping for more feedback as far as putting villain on a hand-range post flop, so I definitely appreciate your post, and Hagbard's. I've been trying to improve my post-flop play and especially working on hand reading.

I never thought to eliminate kk/qq/jj from his pre-flop range – but I think you make a good point. This player imo is sneaky enough that at least some of the time, he wouldn't raise pre with those hands – as that would be sort of turning his hand face-up imo. But on the flop you are probably right – he would have bet bigger with a vulnerable hand like top pair. I didn't take that into account and should have, as it would make it easier to fold that flop.

After thinking more about this hand I really butchered it. I hate my pre-flop play, my flop, my turn, and my river play.