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September 14, 2014
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#Game No : 687191389
***** 888poker Hand History for Game 687191389 *****
$125/$250 Blinds No Limit Holdem – ***
Tournament #62903512 $5.45 + $0.55 – Table #15 9 Max (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: shizof ( $4,210 )
Seat 2: HeadsupmanAA ( $7,917 )
Seat 3: KopcAK ( $5,285 )
Seat 4: Jaydavis187 ( $6,507 )
Seat 6: funkmaster16 ( $8,090 )
Seat 7: MikkiHiiri ( $2,879 )
Seat 9: london_ace ( $7,425 )
Seat 10: Sterwor ( $6,532 )
MikkiHiiri posts ante [$25]
london_ace posts ante [$25]
HeadsupmanAA posts ante [$25]
funkmaster16 posts ante [$25]
Sterwor posts ante [$25]
shizof posts ante [$25]
KopcAK posts ante [$25]
Jaydavis187 posts ante [$25]
london_ace posts small blind [$125]
Sterwor posts big blind [$250]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to london_ace [ 9
, A
]
shizof folds
HeadsupmanAA raises [$500]
KopcAK folds
Jaydavis187 folds
funkmaster16 folds
MikkiHiiri folds
london_ace raises [$1,125]
Sterwor folds
HeadsupmanAA calls [$750]
** Dealing flop ** [ 2
, 9
, 7 ]
london_ace bets ??
Hey,
Reads – V has been opening up a ton , they’ve r/f to a few shoves as well. They are very much capable of opening up pretty wide from EP so i decided to 3-bet here.They also do bet quite often when checked too and take stabs at the pot , I’ve not seen them call a 3-bet pre though , but i think its fairly safe to discount strong hands like QQ-AA and maybe AK. so ya what range of hands do you give this opponent when they flat at these effective stacks? I mean we are getting kinda shallow ish here, I’m gunna say hands like KQs/KJs maybe JTs the odd pocket pair
which line do we take on the flop against this opponent?
given the pre flop range and reads i’ve given , i think c/r is pretty good here imo, thoughts?
i also don’t think betting flop is terrible as such either , it’s just that if we bet i reckon we’re gunna get a lot of worse hands to fold. The bad part is that if we check and they check back we’ve then given them a free card and if the turn is say a higher card then the 9 , we may get into a tricky spot and may even get bluffed off the best hand , so yeah the more i think about it , i think c/r is the best option.
July 12, 2013
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I don’t like the 3b pre. But I’m gonna lead my whole range here.
September 14, 2014
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why don't you like the 3-bet pre? Imo A9o is a good candidate for it , we block a few combo's since we've got the ace also like i said v has been raising a ton pre , they've folded to 3-bet shoves too, i've not seen them call 3-bets..
only problem is if we get called we will be OOP but i just cant see how the 3-bet is bad here
August 23, 2014
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If you think villain is opening wide 3bet is ok but not great a bit to shallow To be 3betting early possistion raises but if you do 3bet needs to be bigger m8 min 3bet dosnt accomplish nothing here. I prefer Cbet on flop c/r looks weird after 3betting pre an we don’t want to give 3card just bet big try take pot on flop
September 14, 2014
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hey bud , I never mini re-raised , i made it 2.5bb the intial raise…, i'm gunna guess you're going to make it 3bb the intial raise? i think that's 2 big , we can get away with raising smaller…as he fold's often enough. The downside is he may have good odds to call if we make it to small , but i think 2.5bb is spot on? even if that means playing OOP , cuz he's not calling which makes it profitable …
tbh mate i usually don't 3-bet as a bluff when this shallow , but after speaking to andrew, it can be profitable to do so in right circumstances and this is one of them! ( i hope)
yeah he's opening up from EP, but he's opened up a ton and folded from ep as well ,i'd say he's opening up 25% of hands from EP.
August 23, 2014
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2.5 would be 1250 wouldn’t it maybe am wrong am reading these hand while grinding . anyway m8 I would make it about 1350 if I were to 3bet here if we ad a good strong hand what we wanted action with your sizing would be fine but with A9o I prefer bigger sizing that’s just IMO tho dude
July 12, 2013
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I just wouldn’t have this hand in my 3b range. If he’s opening wide then we’re ahead of his range and can play it oop post flop. Are you 3b this for straight value? Or as a bluff? I’d rather 3b a hand like 68cc or something than A9 oop.
September 14, 2014
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I'm 3-betting this as a bluff. Hands like 78s are good to 3-bet with as well, as when you are called you're cards are live. Where as with A9o if we are called we could get into a tricky spot if we flop an ace , although that's kinda unlikely since we do block hands like AK/AQ/AJ/AT and stuff. Also i don't think there's many ax in their range, i think most big aces will likely 4-bet shove here so when he flat's i discount stronger hands in their range.
July 12, 2013
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The hand is just too strong against a wide opener to be in your 3b range. IMO.
September 14, 2014
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so against a tight opener , you may consider A9o to be in your 3-bet bluff range? What im trying to get at is when do you think 3-betting A9o is appropritate, against which type of opponents?
July 12, 2013
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I don’t really want A9 in my bluff range. If we’re playing against a tight player 3b A9o oop, can’t be +EV. Check out Daryls 3b series… I think it’ll shed a lot of light on 3 betting.
July 12, 2013
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So I’ve been doing a whole bunch of reading and searching online for 3b vs BTN open ranges from the SB… And it seems to me that there aren’t a lot of great answers. Even a forum on Iveypoker I came across Aaron Jones said he doesn’t think the highest level players have this particular spot figured out… (And I’m pretty sure what he means is GTO 3b ranges vs BTN open) but… Ya… Anyways. I think I’ll just keep listening and hope maybe Andrew or Daryl chime in and give some insight. I think this situation is pretty interesting. Having said all that… A9 specifically against a wide open seems like a pretty easy call.
December 28, 2012
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Honestly, I think I just fold this pre because the SB sucks!
I'm not flatting from the SB w. A9o and trying to play it post, OOP.
I'm not in love with 3betting either although you did say that you didn't expect a flat given tendencies/reads – so I don't hate it I suppose.
I just think the SB is the worst position to be playing back at this guy from and we can exploit him a tonne IP.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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First thing to do is rule out calling. Playing this profitably OOP against an EP raiser is going to be basically impossible, and it only gets worse if BB call which he probably will since he'll be getting a great price. Maybe you even induce a squeeze. Call is no good.
Now you need to build a light 3betting range out of the hands that aren't good enough to call.
Although it happened here, stacks make it tricky for V to flat your 3-bet, so you ought to be less concerned about how well your hand plays postflop and more concerned with blockers. That's a case for 3-betting Ax.
The real question is just how much Ax you are going to 3-bet-fold. You should definitely 3bet-fold all of your AT before you adding this to your 3-bet range. Then, despite what I just said not seeing a flop often, I still think Axs might be slightly better for this than A9o. The kicker will very rarely matter even for card removal purposes, and suitedness helps a lot on the odd occasions that Villain calls. So once you fill up your 3-bet-folding range with AT and Axs, I think you'll 3bet too much if you put A9o in there also.
As played, there's a real chance V flatted a monster, but I don't think you can get away from TPTK with such a shallow stack. I don't think you should have a checking range here, I'd just c-bet my entire range v small with shallow stacks and a dry flop (approx same size as your 3-bet). You'll have enough whiffs to put this in your bet-call range.
November 4, 2013
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Andrew, I agree with everything you said – my only question is since when did 30bb stacks (25bb after the 3b), become shallow?
As played, I'm betting here for just under half pot. Puke if he shoves, but I'm not good enough to fold. (Mostly because I think he'll shove with 88 and worse 9's as well as T8 – all of which are in his range if he's as wide as you say).
I'm often guilty of this same kind of a line, just not usually vs an early OP raiser. It's more in my 3b the CO range, but not in my 3b the btn range. I find this is a great hand to be defending the SB with vs a button open, because it beats a lot of his range. You just have to be comfortable enough with floating post flop.
September 14, 2014
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cheers andrew and nice post.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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OneTime1Time said:
Andrew, I agree with everything you said – my only question is since when did 30bb stacks (25bb after the 3b), become shallow?
As played, I'm betting here for just under half pot. Puke if he shoves, but I'm not good enough to fold. (Mostly because I think he'll shove with 88 and worse 9's as well as T8 – all of which are in his range if he's as wide as you say).
I'm often guilty of this same kind of a line, just not usually vs an early OP raiser. It's more in my 3b the CO range, but not in my 3b the btn range. I find this is a great hand to be defending the SB with vs a button open, because it beats a lot of his range. You just have to be comfortable enough with floating post flop.
When Villain calls, you're seeing the flop with an SPR of barely 2. You aren't going to have room to barrel or win big pots with straights and flushes, which is what suited connectors are good for. That's what I meant by shallow.
Also this is a UTG1 raise, not a button raise.
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