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22 in sb w 53bb, bb has 22bb How would you play it?
KingBustYou
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May 19, 2011 - 10:28 am
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Were itm in an $11 tourny w a nice stack. BB is an active player who has 3bet a few times, flatted raises ip and has flatted my sb raises in bb w position and took the pot away from me. So im guessing villain will reshove on us quite often. 

Do we just shove here preventing him from shoving any two cuz we'll always be flipping unless he has a duece in his hand. Or do we raise /call because we dont mind flipping for a 45bb pot putting us in a real good spot to make it very deep. If we lose we'll still have 30bb to work with.

Poker Stars $10+$1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t500/t1000 Blinds + t100 – 9 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

DaddyDj2904 (UTG): BB = 38.1, t38092
Akzilan (UTG+1): BB = 15.8, t15825
Smuk04 (UTG+2): BB = 11.9, t11858
3 gondona (MP1): BB = 73.8, t73843
CARLNSUE (MP2): BB = 13.0, t12984
maradona1976 (CO): BB = 18.8, t18768
lualan (BTN): BB = 57.8, t57763
Hero (SB): BB = 53.4, t53390
Unabambi (BB): BB = 22.2, t22159

Pre Flop: (t2400) Hero is SB with 2 of hearts 2 of spades
7 folds, Hero ?

G0liath
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May 19, 2011 - 10:41 am
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i probably limp if he's been agro and trying to take pots away from you. Far too much to open shove the 2400 in the pot isn't that valuable to you.

swet1
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May 19, 2011 - 10:42 am
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22 isn't a hand I want to race with especially for ~ half my stack. If he was shorter like <12bb I would consider jamming it.

southpaw_r32
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May 19, 2011 - 6:41 pm
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Interesting spot…… At first I was gonna say 3xBB, but then I re-read your post OP and you mention he's a very active player…….

 

Is folding here too nitty???? I know it's a pair, but we're flipping against any 2 cards.

 

If we open to 3xBB, it sounds like he'll either call/jam, I assume we're gonna fold if he jams PF and folding any flop without a set??

 

If we limp, we will either get shoved on or probably check/fold flop if we don't bink the TWO…….

 

I think he's too deep for us to jam PF…….

 

Interested to hear others opinions……….

 

badabing78
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May 19, 2011 - 7:01 pm
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to me its shove or fold, most of the time its a flip and when i add the fold equity its a +ev play, or am i wrong?!  but if i'm sure the guy always calls – fold

 i guess i would never just make a normal raise here against an agg player with taht hand

hapetimes
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May 20, 2011 - 6:49 pm
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i'll never open fold HU with a pair and that stack

Shoving 22BB's effective not profitable imo

with a stack like 17-25BB's i mix it up and sometimes limp, sometimes raise

With and agg villain behind us we have less options. If we raise and get played back at we have to fold b/c we wont have odds to set mine if he makes it 5-7k, and we cant call a 22BB 3bet shove with 22, as is said we are always flipping and sometimes crushed

I think the only viable option is to limp and call a raise, and only ever continue if we flop a set

KingBustYou
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May 21, 2011 - 8:13 am
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I rasie called his shove and won the flip vs AQ. But agree that it's prolly better to raise fold in this spot cuz Im always flipping at best or dominated by a higher pair. 

Do we limp call a raise just to try and hit a set? And if we do flop one will we get paid off by villain who'll miss the flop more often than not? Or do we c/c a cbet hoping villain missed ? And what if a scare card turns? Playing the hand oop not knowing were we stand sounds like a spot we better avoid. 

Third@eye
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May 21, 2011 - 8:24 am
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I'm raising 2.5xbb and foldin to big rr or shove. I'm R calling 88+ to agg player.

Third@eye
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May 21, 2011 - 8:29 am
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Proably calling up to 7k rr from him for set mine.

KingBustYou
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May 21, 2011 - 9:37 am
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Villain only has 22k to begin the hand, dont think he would 3bet anything less but all of his chips. If he were to 3bet me to 7k for a third of his stack, that wouldnt gives us the right (implied) odds to setmine .

G0liath
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May 21, 2011 - 11:03 am
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with his stack the only way your getting FE is limp/shoving or open shoving (think we decided open shoving is a poor risk/reward ratio)

I think raising with the intention of calling AI or 4bet jamming is simply gambling hoping for a flip for 22bb. He's never folding after 3betting if he knows anything about odds.

I dont think limp/calling a small raise ever gives you correct odds to setmine.

 

Therefore limp/folding or limp/shoving are your only options here imo. limp/shoving>limp/folding against Mr aggressive

hawkeyeK9
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May 21, 2011 - 1:46 pm
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I wouldnt worry about him shoving on you, if he does I think it is an easy fold. I would standard raise sb vs. bb here and if he 3bet shoves then I fold. Your raise will look at least somewhat strong to him.

ttwist

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May 21, 2011 - 5:20 pm
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sb to bb where bb has around 20 bigs and i pickup a pair in sb i prolly just shove and put pressure on villain, i mean you have to open here and just opening allows villain to make a  play at you with rags and then they cant fold, and i hate open folding in this spot. hate the spot so jam

KingBustYou
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May 22, 2011 - 1:33 pm
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shoving does sound better and makes this whole spot a lot easier. no head ache. 

Figure villain will call us w A8s+, A9o+, 33+ or perhaps 66+ and maybe KQs which against we have about 35% equity when he calls us 9-11% of the time.

hawkeyeK9
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May 23, 2011 - 3:38 pm
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I think one thing to keep in mind about shoving in this spot is that so many people know about shoving wide in this spot so you are getting called a lot lighter these days then before. I see calls with K and Q high in these spots a lot now a day. Just opening looks stronger than a shove and if he does have the balls to 3bet jam u then u only risked 2.5bb's. Not saying that open/folding is optimal, but in this spot where people know the shove play sb vs bb, I believe in this spot considering the stacks it is.

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