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22 d 360 max interesting spot with trips.
Van H3Lzing
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January 5, 2012 - 6:00 pm
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No reads on villain really, first hand played against him as moved to table. He was 1 tabling this tourny. At this point there just over 60 ppl left with 36 paid.

I wont go into too much detail on my thoughts just yet, I just want to see what people think of this hand in general and what hero does on the river. All I will say is im not sure if this is just a fold pre….

 

Anyway this is how the hand played out

 

Poker Stars $20+$2 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t300/t600 Blinds + t120 – 8 players

TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

kartrid (UTG): BB = 66.8, t40052
KillerNorbit (UTG+1): BB = 32.1, t19285
JildarX (MP1): BB = 37.5, t22514
auercan (MP2): BB = 79.4, t47628
Lodey1012 (CO): BB = 38.0, t22810
lashrlog (BTN): BB = 10.6, t6343
anytwobully1 (SB): BB = 34.1, t20472
Hero (BB): BB = 46.8, t28107

Pre Flop: (t1860) Hero is BB with 5 of clubs A of clubs
kartrid raises to t1200, 6 folds, Hero calls t600

Flop: (t3660) J of spades 7 of hearts A of spades (2 players)
Hero checks, kartrid bets t1960, Hero calls t1960

Turn: (t7580) A of diamonds (2 players)
Hero checks, kartrid bets t4580, Hero calls t4580

River: (t16740) 8 of hearts (2 players)
Hero checks, kartrid bets t6740, Hero ?????

 

Look forward to the feedback on the hand and thoughts. laugh

 

 

 

running0uts
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January 5, 2012 - 7:52 pm
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A suited ace plays best in a multiway pot I think and so I am not defending this to an utg raise, where we are often going to be dominated. Defending with it will often get you into tough spots, as you found here. Because heads up you are not getting the odds to play for 2 pair or better type hands, when you do decide to defend here you are going to have to peel when you do get top pair, and of course you have to continue when you get trips on the turn, and even though you are often behind on the river I think you have to call there too, though really you now just have a bluff catcher against a missed flush, or against a thin value/blocker bet with KK type hands. So as played, I am check calling each street but I prefer to avoid these tough spots and am folding pre.

bennymacca
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January 5, 2012 - 8:21 pm
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if you check-call twice, and the board doesnt change on the river, you are lighting money on fire if you dont c-c again imo. 

 

but i definitely agree with running0uts, defending this to an utg raise is a leak imo

FkCoolers
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January 5, 2012 - 9:45 pm
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Seems like a fold. OR isn't betting into a trup Aces board with anything we beat when he's raising UTG and 1 tabling. 

Defending pre is fine. 

Couple more things – I think folding a suited wheel Ace pre 46 bb's effective is a pretty big mistake, actually. I think you'll be hard pressed to find many pros who fold here. It's the Turn that makes this a hard fold, but when you stop and thinking about it the Turn really changes nothing. It just makes us get attached to our own hand and not think as much about our opponent's range. 

Even fish know people play most Ax hands and nothing slows him down. He's a winning player, though. I don't think he's just 3 barreling off when he has no reads, either. 

running0uts
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January 6, 2012 - 12:58 am
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FkCoolers said:

Couple more things – I think folding a suited wheel Ace pre 46 bb's effective is a pretty big mistake, actually. I think you'll be hard pressed to find many pros who fold here.

This is really interesting to me as I think I am folding here pretty much every time, which could be a leak in my game. I don't really understand the logic behind a flat though, obviously we can stack him on some boards but I wouldn't have thought that would be often enough to make playing this hand oop +ev. I guess if you are confident to play for value with top pair and capable of getting away when you are dominated, or making a move at pots then it could work.

Van H3Lzing
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January 6, 2012 - 5:51 am
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Thanks for your comments guys and all are valid arguements. The reason I defended is exactly what fkcoolers said, we are 46 bb effect with nut suited ace vs a guy who also very deep and we are looking to smash a flop. Agreed when you hit top pair your not loving it and it most situations you will be in C/ C mode. On the river we are indeed bluff catching and the way he played this hand hes never betting a hand worse than ours OTR. I have a feeling pro's like goleafsgoeh fold here pre but I really need some clarification as to what is the optimal play.

ttwist

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January 6, 2012 - 8:21 am
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hate flatting out of position here as it makes it very difficult to have a beleivable line at the end id rather you 3 bet here and outplay villain than flat and fold ur chips away but 3 betting here is bad as well as its your first hand i fold and dont put myself in these spots where i have to pay off all better aces.

arukidinme
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January 6, 2012 - 11:47 am
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ttwist said:

hate flatting out of position here as it makes it very difficult to have a beleivable line at the end id rather you 3 bet here and outplay villain than flat and fold ur chips away but 3 betting here is bad as well as its your first hand i fold and dont put myself in these spots where i have to pay off all better aces.

I like what ttwist says, I often would flat if this is a multi way pot.  Once it folds to us in BB I like the idea of starting to turn the hand into the bluff.  At the end of the day I have no problem 3bet/folding this hand pre to a UTG raise (assuming the guy isn't a nit).  The problem with the 3bet is what happens once he flats?  All options are going to suck unless we hit gin.
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