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Home Forum MTT Poker Strategy 20bb MP Shoving Range vs UTG Big St…

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20bb MP Shoving Range vs UTG Big Stack Min-raise

WillyWokka

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July 15, 2017 - 8:42 pm

Hello again. This hand, my big concern is my action pre. A4 sooted MP with 20bb stack size with big stack bully UTG min-raising.

Fold? Shove?

I know this is pretty standard stuff, but I want to think about the range I should be shoving with.. and flatting with, if ever. I’m realizing now this shoulda been a fold, especially because of the small stacks behind.

Thoughts?

Thanks guys. wokka wokka!

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) – 375/750 NL – Holdem – 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (MP+1): 15,051
CO: 32,023 (VPIP: 25.68, PFR: 4.17, 3Bet Preflop: 6.45, Hands: 76)
BTN: 6,759 (VPIP: 39.02, PFR: 24.39, 3Bet Preflop: 6.25, Hands: 41)
SB: 3,895 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
BB: 37,712 (VPIP: 27.63, PFR: 21.33, 3Bet Preflop: 25.93, Hands: 76)
UTG: 88,635 (VPIP: 30.26, PFR: 26.32, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 76)
UTG+1: 65,024 (VPIP: 23.46, PFR: 8.75, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 82)
MP: 19,156 (VPIP: 25.56, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 91)

8 players post ante of 75, SB posts SB 375, BB posts BB 750

Pre Flop: (pot: 1,725) Hero has A heart 4 heart

UTG raises to 1,500, fold, fold, Hero calls 1,500, CO calls 1,500, BTN calls 1,500, SB calls 1,125, BB calls 750

Flop: (9,600, 6 players) T spade Q diamond 2 diamond
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, CO checks, BTN bets 5,184 and is all-in, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold

BTN wins 9,600

almofadinhas

Playing The Prelims

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July 17, 2017 - 10:08 am

I think I would shove something like 99+, ATs+, KQs, AJo+, KQo, you still have 4 people to act pre flop behind you.

Maybe you can call, to induce a 3bet sqz with ~ QQ+, AQs+, AQo+, but stacks are actually weird for it, BB has deep stack, probably just calling, CO is deep too, BTN has a good stack for go all in and make this good to reshove, but that is it.

Sometimes I do call with KK and AA if i know V is agressive post flop, may call it down or shove on V´s cbet, depending on the board.

WillyWokka

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July 18, 2017 - 6:25 pm

So it’s simple. Fold pre!

Thank you for the tips on how to play the better hands I should be getting involved with, too. Great stuff to keep in mind.

theginger45

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August 12, 2017 - 11:57 am

Almost definitely a fold pre. I don’t completely hate the flat – I think you can probably flat wider here than most people would expect – but I think shoving here would most likely be pretty suicidal. I’d encourage you to eliminate the phrase ‘big stack bully’ from your vocabulary, since most players will not be adapting well enough to their stack size, and estimating their actual ranges in more specific terms is necessary.

I doubt you have enough fold equity to jam A4s here, but I think something like 55+ A9s+ ATo+ KJs+ QJs JTs KQo could work if you do suspect villain to be fairly wide. I like the idea of flatting the top hands too, although I don’t think AQ/AK are good candidates for that. Needs to be mostly QQ+.

Collin Moshman

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August 12, 2017 - 4:31 pm

I agree with the other posters, and just wanted to add that these hands are nice in that they can be mainly reduced to math problems. Assuming there’s no particular ICM involved, and ignoring the possibility of other players cold-calling:

EV (Shoving) = P (Opponent Folds) x (Amount in the Middle before you shove) + P (Opponent Calls) x (Gain/Loss When He Calls)

The probability he calls is the percentage of his opening range he calls a shove with. Your gain/loss when he calls is the equity your hand has against his calling range times the total pot size when he calls. You can do these calculations manually and gain some nice insight, or software works very well for them too.

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