September 14, 2014
#Game No : 471733321
***** 888poker Hand History for Game 471733321 *****
$100/$200 Blinds No Limit Holdem – ***
Tournament #65238904 $10 + $1 – Table #14 9 Max (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: vancruz89 ( $2,095 )
Seat 2: payday4life ( $3,710 )
Seat 3: kwachu1988d ( $800 )
Seat 4: watsondiane ( $5,006 )
Seat 5: DaddyMcBooom ( $6,871 )
Seat 7: london_ace ( $6,691 )
Seat 9: C1HPS ( $22,227 )
Seat 10: creg_allenki ( $2,716 )
watsondiane posts small blind [$100]
DaddyMcBooom posts big blind [$200]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to london_ace [ K, K ]
london_ace raises [$400]
C1HPS calls [$400]
creg_allenki folds
vancruz89 folds
payday4life folds
kwachu1988d folds
watsondiane folds
DaddyMcBooom calls [$200]
** Dealing flop ** [ 8, 6 2 ]
DaddyMcBooom checks
london_ace bets [$650]
C1HPS folds
DaddyMcBooom calls [$650]
** Dealing turn ** [ A ]
DaddyMcBooom checks
london_ace checks
** Dealing river ** [ 8 ]
DaddyMcBooom bets [$1,300]
london_ace calls [$1,300]
** Summary **
Hey
reads – v1 , has been active , calls raise with marginal hands
reads – v 2 decent reg , have seen him flat some strong hands like KK, IP.
thoughts about calling river?
December 24, 2014
Call on the river is probably -EV. I still call in this spot sometimes though if i thot the V was spewey enough.
Edit: When I call vs a spewey V im hopeing he had a missed heart draw, or is just vluffing. Not saying this is correct, almost certainly better to fold. Just l;etting you guys know i call here often so dont get outa line vs me… 😉
TPE Pro
August 25, 2012
I don’t think the call is awful, although I prefer it if we don’t have the Kh since that puts a lot more flush draw combos in the villain’s range. There aren’t a huge number of Ax hands in villain’s flop check-calling range, so I think you have to ask yourself, how many hands with an 8 in them is he calling with preflop?
Probably quite a few of those, since he’s in the big blind. How many of them is he valuebetting on the river? All of them. Can he have full houses on the river as well as an 8? Yes, although he might check-raise the flop with a set.. Would he valuebet an ace here? Not if it was a counterfeited A6 or A2, but maybe if it were AThh/AJhh/AQhh and he decided not to check-raise those.
Would he check-raise flush draws? Sometimes, I expect. So what does that leave us with? A river range that includes quite a few 8x hands, some missed flush draws (and potentially missed straight draws, 97 or 75), some Ax, and some full houses.
What I’m getting at here is that the only way to really know is to put the scenario through an equity calculator, figure it all out while factoring in blockers and dead cards, calculate how much equity you need based on pot odds, and establish whether you have that equity versus his range. I haven’t done that for you here, but I’ve outlined the factors you should consider. Have a go at doing the calculation yourself. Personally, I find I learn a lot faster that way. 🙂
TPE Pro
August 25, 2012
StrugLife said:
Just curious, you don't like betting here with counterfeited A right? So are you C/F with a counterfeited A? Cos one time a very good player told me never to call in spots where your chopping at best. Is my logic not applicable in this spot?
Well, saying you should never call in those spots is ridiculous, because it's all about pot odds. You just get half the odds you're otherwise getting if you know you're calling for a chop, so you look at the bet sizing and decide based on how much equity you need, the same way you always do with river bets. A 'very good player' probably wouldn't tell you to never do a specific thing, because there are very few things in poker that are just unilaterally a bad idea. But a counterfeited Ax isn't really calling for a chop here, anyway.
There are a fair number of hands in OP's range that still constitute pure air based on his line. A lot of broadway hands with one heart that would have been cbetting this flop, some hands like T9, and maybe even some broadway overcards without a heart. Given that the BB's range for calling flop and checking turn still includes a lot of weak hands by the river – flush draws, some 6x hands, 55, 77, and even 99/TT which are hardly monsters on the river and may not be check-raised on the flop – it's a reasonable spot for OP to try to represent the Ax and get the BB to fold these hands, since OP can't really win at showdown with Q high or K high (K high stands a small chance versus his flush draws).
If the BB is aware of this, and thinks OP is the type of player to take the bet-check-bet line here as a bluff quite often, check-calling with Ax on the river is perfectly fine. OP's range for betting on the river is basically 8x hands, strong Ax hands, and bluffs. The proportion of bluffs dictates whether Ax is a check-call or a check-fold.
As far as leading out with Ax in BB's spot goes, I would probably bet with AJ+, and check with everything up to AT. The reason is that OP is probably more likely to stab with an air hand when checked to than he is to call with a hand that is beat by, say, A7 here, while the stronger our Ax gets, the more likely we are to get called by worse, since OP probably isn't folding many Ax hands to our bet.
So in answer to your question, with a counterfeited A6 or A2 in BB's spot, I would probably be check-calling the river if I thought OP was reasonably aggressive, and check-folding if I thought he wasn't stabbing river with his missed hands very often. I wouldn't be leading river with those counterfeited hands, but with the stronger Ax hands I would, in order to get called by the weaker ones.
It's also worth noting that it's the fact that BB probably wouldn't bet river with a counterfeited Ax that polarizes his range somewhat here, to the point where we can consider calling with KK. If the BB was betting all his Ax hands, regardless of counterfeiting, we lose to a lot more of his hands, and folding KK becomes better. Hope that helps.
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