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August 8, 2012
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So all of these hands are from the final table of a $4.50 180 man on Stars where I came in with the chiplead, but didn't play particularly well, or at least that's what it felt like when I crashed out in 7th! I've picked out these hands as I'm not sure of the optimal line and felt they were where I might have lost the most chips. Any help/tips on playing a final table when coming in with the chiplead would be great. I felt like I was aggro, but my steals were being restolen and my 3b were not being respected.
Hand 1) Villain is 18/2 over 47 hands up to this point. Played with him a bit on the last two tables and I felt he was pretty weak since he was limping quite a bit and not raising much, as his stats suggest. According to SS he's only played 43 180 mans lifetime so i don't expect him to be very experienced, although no other details as he hasn't opted in. His post flop aggression factor was 0.11.
On this flop I don't think I get worse to call or better to fold so I check. I guess a player as passive as this is unlikely to bluff this flop and is probably betting an Ace or better. I call the flop just in case he has a pair plus draw type hand too (which now I feel is unlikely since he's so passive) and I also have outs too.
On the turn I guess there's no way he bets worse so should we just fold? I called as he made it so small. On the river I think I check/fold. Is there any other line that might be better here? Do we bet/fold flop? Bet flop, check turn, then fire river if villain checks behind turn?
Poker Stars $4.10+$0.40 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t600/t1200 Blinds + t125 – 8 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter
UTG+1: BB = 39.4, t47259
MP1: BB = 56.7, t68086
MP2: BB = 23.4, t28114
Hero (CO): BB = 53.7, t64487
BTN: BB = 25.3, t30417
SB: BB = 8.2, t9796
BB: BB = 5.8, t7015
UTG: BB = 12.4, t14826
Pre Flop: (t2800) Hero is CO with K
Q
4 folds, Hero raises to t2640, BTN calls t2640, 2 folds
Flop: (t8080) K J A
(2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets t2400, Hero calls t2400
Turn: (t12880) A (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets t3600, Hero calls t3600
River: (t20080) 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks
Hand 2) Versus same player as above. By this point he is 17/2 over 54 hands, with a fold to steal of 100% (5/5), which makes me feel that his range of hands for flatting the SB will be quite tight/strong. When he donks the flop, should we just fold? I feel calling is just throwing chips away unless we're confident we can bet the turn and take it away unimproved, or maybe check down to a cheap showdown. What is he donking 1/2 pot here that we can profitably call with 99 here?
Poker Stars $4.10+$0.40 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t800/t1600 Blinds + t150 – 8 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter
MP1: BB = 25.4, t40599
MP2: BB = 39.6, t63386
CO: BB = 21.6, t34574
Hero (BTN): BB = 27.0, t43131
SB: BB = 24.6, t39357
BB: BB = 5.2, t8296
UTG: BB = 2.7, t4315
UTG+1: BB = 22.7, t36342
Pre Flop: (t3600) Hero is BTN with 9 9
5 folds, Hero raises to t3520, SB calls t2720, 1 fold
Flop: (t9840) Q 8 J
(2 players)
SB bets t4800, Hero calls t4800
Turn: (t19440) 4 (2 players)
SB bets t9600, Hero ???
Hand 3) Actually against the same villain (just realised… d'oh). Now he's 18/1 over 69 hands. His fold to steal was 75% from both the SB and BB (6/8 in total, 3/4 in SB) so again his range of hands is fairly strong. On the flop I feel there's a strong chance he has missed and I make my standard cbet of around 36%. When he calls I feel is range is flush draws, straight draws, 9x and 6x, plus maybe 77,88,TT,JJ, possibly even QQ,KK and AK if he's only raising 1%. When the Kd comes on the turn I feel it's a very good card to double barrel since a tonne of pairs will fold, plus 6x, which might account for 50% of his flop continuing range. What do you think. On the river I think I'm glad he bets out as he's going to struggle call on the river without a diamond or boat.
As it seems to be a common theme where I'm losing chips to this guy, is there a better way to play against him? Fit or fold perhaps? Betting for value when we have it? The thing is that he's not a station, just quite difficult to range appropriately.
Poker Stars $4.10+$0.40 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t800/t1600 Blinds + t150 – 7 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter
UTG+1: BB = 13.9, t22307
MP: BB = 34.8, t55661
CO: BB = 15.5, t24728
Hero (BTN): BB = 28.3, t45351
SB: BB = 30.8, t49277
BB: BB = 26.1, t41784
UTG: BB = 19.3, t30892
Pre Flop: (t3450) Hero is BTN with Q J
4 folds, Hero raises to t3520, SB calls t2720, 1 fold
Flop: (t9690) 9 6 9 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t3488, SB calls t3488
Turn: (t16666) K (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t7999, SB calls t7999
River: (t32664) 2 (2 players)
SB bets t20800, Hero folds
Hand 4) Versus two villains this time, one of whom is the guy from the other three hands. He's now running 16/1 over 88 hands. The MP is 17/10 over 218 hands. Having just reviewed the hand I notice that he only has 14BBs so should alarm bells start ringing? Also, our friend has limped UTG and could have a very strong hand, although I feel he would lead the flop with an overpair or better. I was sitting 7/7 at this point and felt like fold equity plus the actual equity I had of probably 8 outs to the best hand was a good spot to check/jam here. Do we get folds enough of the time for this play to be profitable?
Poker Stars $4.10+$0.40 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t1000/t2000 Blinds + t200 – 7 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter
CO: BB = 14.6, t29132
BTN: BB = 32.0, t64011
SB: BB = 12.6, t25278
Hero (BB): BB = 11.4, t22724
UTG: BB = 36.5, t73074
UTG+1: BB = 14.0, t28064
MP: BB = 13.9, t27717
Pre Flop: (t4400) Hero is BB with 8 6
UTG calls t2000, 1 fold, MP calls t2000, 3 folds, Hero checks
Flop: (t8400) 9 J 7 (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP bets t2000, Hero ???
August 8, 2012
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BUMP 
October 6, 2010
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its best if you only post one hand per thread, just becomes hard when there is a mishmash of hands and people trying to comment on each one
firstly, i think we should be min raising at this stage of the tournament, or just slightly over. for instance at the 600/1200 level i like 2404 or 2440 but i think you are making it slightly too big. not a huge deal because it is still less than 2.5x, but i think you can go smaller.
in hand 1, i think i am going for a cbet every time. by checking you are almost telling villain that you dont have an ace, because you are definitely cbetting if you have AT here.
hand 2, i am raising that donk lead, or folding. dont really like calling as we are now in a guessing game as to whether he has a draw or we are getting value towned.
hand 3, i think your cbet needs to be bigger, more like 4500 or so, i just dont think anything calls when you make such a small cbet. certainly overcards with a single diamond, and all made hands including underpairs still call with your sizing.
hand 4 – you have 10bb, so i think this is a decent spot to gamble, but UTG limps are sometimes something to be wary of, so it would be interesting to know whether you had any reads that he could do this.
July 7, 2012
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in hand 1, i think i am going for a cbet every time. by checking you are almost telling villain that you dont have an ace, because you are definitely cbetting if you have AT here.
– likewise cbetting everytime here, and probably a little over 50% pot to convincingly rep A. If called and dont improve then prob c/f turn.
hand 2, i am raising that donk lead, or folding. dont really like calling as we are now in a guessing game as to whether he has a draw or we are getting value towned.
– agree
hand 3, i think your cbet needs to be bigger, more like 4500 or so, i just dont think anything calls when you make such a small cbet. certainly overcards with a single diamond, and all made hands including underpairs still call with your sizing.
– agree, and probably checking back turn
hand 4 – you have 10bb, so i think this is a decent spot to gamble, but UTG limps are sometimes something to be wary of, so it would be interesting to know whether you had any reads that he could do this.
– defo time to gamble, might even consider donk jamming here
August 6, 2012
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Hey,
I agree with benny in the sizing for 1st hand. I usually make it 2440 at the most. I also agree that when we check, we tell villain we almost never have an A. I would def cbet as that is a scary looking board for our opponent. You said that you don't think a worse would call or better fold, and you had the read that since he's passive, he would only bet if he has an A or better, then why call? If you think he has a pair+draw, you should be better off cbetting the flop IMO. You can control the pot or take a free card, depending on what the turn brings. Since he checks back the river, im guessing he has something like KJ or maybe same hands as yours. Whats his 3bet %?
Hand 2, either raise or fold. I think you might be giving him a lot of credit (thinking hes passive) and maybe failing to realize that he might be adjusting for final table play. Obviously this is entirely dependant on reads, so it's important to pay attention to this. Personally I don't think he's even as strong as TP in this spot.
Hand 3, I agree with the sizing comments from the other guys, way too small. At least make it 4750, if not more, check turn and fold this river IMO.
Hand 4, I won't be open shoving pre, but I would check and jam this flop most likely. I would make up my mind if I can get away with a check raise, but if not, maybe just donking all in is the best play. Most of the time you will get folds and increase your stack by 30%, If called, you got outs to improve.
August 8, 2012
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Thanks for the responses guys! Yeah, I guess I should've posted all the hands separately, I just thought it would be good to lump them together so I could discuss the player I lost most of my chips to.
As for the preflop raise size. I usually raise 2x at this stage, but was finding I was being flatted a lot, and yet when I raised a bit bigger I got more folds, which was great when I was stealing. This is just an adjustment I made based on the players at the table.
Flop bet sizing is definitely something I need to work on as I seem to click the 38% pot button and leave it at that… not good thinking at all. Do you feel I should be betting more the more draw-heavy the board and I can bet less when the board is very dry?
Hand 4: no reads that either player would be limping big hands, but it was very uncharacteristic of both players. Alarm bells were ringing when MP limps with <20BBs, though. Should we not consider ranges of both players in this spot before check/jamming or donk jamming our OESD, or is it a perfectly good opportunity to gamble it up?
Just for your info:
Hand 1: Villain had AcTc
Hand 2: KQo
Hand 3: K9o
Hand 4: shortstack MP player had AA
October 6, 2010
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jamo said:
Flop bet sizing is definitely something I need to work on as I seem to click the 38% pot button and leave it at that… not good thinking at all. Do you feel I should be betting more the more draw-heavy the board and I can bet less when the board is very dry?
yep exactly, your sizing should change due to texture and the perceived ranges of your opponents, but rarely on your hand strength
August 6, 2012
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Quad deuces post for benny 😀
October 6, 2010
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haha nice!
and dammit now i have ruined it
Hand 1:
Def need to be c-betting this board as we have mid pair, backdoor flush and gutter ball. His stack is 25bbs, so it isnt like we will be commiting ourselves or will be facing a shove that often on the flop.
As played, I am not folding turn as 47 hands isn't even close to a big enough sample to be folding in this spot. We showed weakness when we checked flop, so folding here is out of the ? imo. If he fired 3 bullets, i would have folded river as played.
Hand 2:
Unless you have a note or read tellling you that he is donk leading wide, we cannot be pealing this flop with our stack. He is double barreling FDs and k10s so we are not winning this pot enough even when we are ahead. He can also have us beat, so I think folding the flop is best.
Hand 3:
**** this guy,lol
I may lean towards a check back flop, rep a later street. Seems like this dude is a huge spew so hard to get him to fold anything on flop. IMO you are giving the HUD to much credit when you only have 70 hands. You can still use the HUD and get value from it with 70 hands, but i give it way less credibility at this point and only would really use it for VP/PR/and 3 bet(still way to small of a sample, but if he has 40
% 3 bet in 70 hands his name is Bigdog) until we get over 250 hands. Even 250 is small tbh.
Hand 4:
sik, but never folding as we do have fold equity and outs and that is enough for me with 10 bbs
gl
Azn
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