View Plans & Pricing

If you are signed in and are seeing this message, please be sure you have selected a user name in My Profile. The forum requires it.
A A A
Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 (0 votes) 
sp_TopicIcon
180 Turbo Spot
checkraizer1
Guest
Guests
1
July 19, 2010 - 1:36 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory
0

I dont think i played this hand terribly (it really plaed itself).  I was in a 180 turbo and was dealt KK in the BB.  UTG is 2nd in chips with 12k and raises to 1200.  It folds around and I raise to 4k.  He shoves and hits an A on the river and i toss my mouse.  My question is are we deep enough where I could have possibly flated and shoved if the flop is A free.  Blinds were 200/400 by the way.  I had started this hand with 18k.

Avatar
RonFezBuddy
New York City

TPE Management
Forum Posts: 2313
Member Since:
March 17, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
July 19, 2010 - 1:49 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

it's a cooler.  30bbs deep is not deep enough to play KK passively.  You should be happy to get chips in with this hand.

Avatar
RonFezBuddy
New York City

TPE Management
Forum Posts: 2313
Member Since:
March 17, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
July 19, 2010 - 1:49 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

and welcome to the site!

jshilling09
Playing The Prelims
Members
Forum Posts: 543
Member Since:
June 25, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
July 19, 2010 - 2:22 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

nah, you want to get all your chips in all the time KK, it's basically the mortal nuts before the flop, the effective stacks are 30bb here so you are not near deep enough to flat here.  KK against an ace is a great spot here, 70% of the time you win, and are crushing the field.  The ace hits sometimes and that's too bad, but if you flat, and no ace comes, he will fold, if it hits he will push.  It's pretty easy for him.  Just be happy you got it in as a big favorite.

The math is if you are all in, the pot is about 25k if you are both all in preflop.  You win 71% of the time. You on average win 17,750 chips.  Making your stack on average, 23,750.

 

Now say you flat- 3,400 is in the pot, no ace hits, and he doesn't pair his other card, ~68% of the time

He c-bets like half the time maybe for half the pot, so add about 900 to the pot, 4,300.  You shove, he folds, so your stack is 20,100 (18,000-1,200)+ 4,300  

 

He hits the ace, bets, you fold, and this is considering you are folding everytime he bets his ace, when it's probably better to float at least one street, but we can cancel out this with the times you flop a set and he hits an ace.

After this your stack is 16,800, this is 16% of the time.

 

He hits his other card, and you get it in.

You win ~80% making your stack 31,000

You lose ~20% making your stack 6,000

So your average stack here is 26,000

 

20,100x .68=13,668

16,800x .16= 2,688

26,000x .16= 4,160

=20,536

So on average you make around 3,200 more chips by shoving than flatting, which is significantly better.  Haha so I hope that helped a little, I really was just going to give a quick, always get it in pre, but then I got caught up in why we want to get it in pre and it just kinda spiraled on from there.  Math may not be perfect, but I think it's close enough.

jshilling09
Playing The Prelims
Members
Forum Posts: 543
Member Since:
June 25, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
July 19, 2010 - 2:25 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

haha and while I spent like 20 minutes writing my post, a much better player gives you the straight answer, take his word for it  At least we have the same answer haha.

Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 2780

Currently Online:
37 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

bennymacca: 2616

Foucault: 2067

folding_aces_pre_yo: 1133

praetor: 1033

theginger45: 924

P-aire 146: 832

Turbulence: 768

The Riceman: 731

duggs: 591

florianm1: 588

Newest Members:

Tillery999

sdmathis89

ne0x00

adrianvaida2525

Anteeater

Laggro

Forum Stats:

Groups: 4

Forums: 24

Topics: 12705

Posts: 75003

 

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1063

Members: 12007

Moderators: 2

Admins: 5

Administrators: RonFezBuddy, Killingbird, Tournament Poker Edge Staff, ttwist, Carlos

Moderators: sitelock, sitelock_1