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16bbs, jacks raised utg,, facing 3bet/ 120/240 25 ante levle
MASTERHOLMES
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May 31, 2013 - 9:03 pm
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Full Tilt Poker Game #32750325494: $300 Guarantee (254616525), Table 21 – NL Hold'em – 120/240 Ante 25 – 19:21:18 CT – 2013/05/31  20:21:18  ET  –  2013/05/31 
Seat 1: HOLMESBRON (3,915)
Seat 2: BluffSmiling (22,082)
Seat 3: luk332 (8,091)
Seat 4: Kicho23ILOK (3,825)
Seat 5: Tinmantoo (5,515)
Seat 6: robikenjobi (2,866)
Seat 7: GRIME2 (8,855)
Seat 8: king_Icey (6,710)
Seat 9: monkey1826 (1,714)
HOLMESBRON antes 25
BluffSmiling antes 25
luk332 antes 25
Kicho23ILOK antes 25
Tinmantoo antes 25
robikenjobi antes 25
GRIME2 antes 25
king_Icey antes 25
monkey1826 antes 25
GRIME2 posts the small blind of 120
king_Icey posts the big blind of 240
The button is in seat #6
    HOLE CARDS    

Dealt to HOLMESBRON
      
monkey1826 folds
HOLMESBRON raises to 600

 

i have 16bss i know the strategy is never raise fold with less with this range of bbss, as that is the weak player.

my intention was either to push,, or raise to induce a shove..i decided to raise and call a shove

BluffSmiling has 15 seconds left to act
BluffSmiling raises to 1,325
luk332 folds
Kicho23ILOK folds
Tinmantoo folds
robikenjobi folds
GRIME2 folds
king_Icey has 15 seconds left to act
king_Icey folds
HOLMESBRON raises to 3,890, and is all in
BluffSmiling calls 2,565

 

if i fold i still got 13 bbs,, still lots of push or fold mode which is what i would do at that bb level

 

the question here is ,,

1. if i run into queens,kings, aces or i put him on that range..

“could i have folded” which is what my young friend who is ahead at the micros mtt right now

(the actual range i put him on was not that tight ,, i put him on pocket 8s or better, ace queen type or possibly king ten suited )

 

2. am i over doing this mtt concept of never raise folding at 16 bbs ? (that 14 to 20 bigs range)

i am looking forward to the forthcoming part four of mtt preflop videos which i hope will shed further light on this.

i figure the antes stage makes a lean towards coming over the top as oppose to folding ?

packallama
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May 31, 2013 - 10:37 pm
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2x instead of 2.5x, especially with 16.3bbs. Never folding to action from just one player.

p1kZoR
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June 1, 2013 - 10:43 am
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With ur stack its minraise (2x), call any action. With 16BBs u cant fold Jacks, even if u think he could have QQ+…
Only possible way i could raise&fold this, if u minraise, some 20BB+ stack 3bet, a guy behind 4bet and BB shove 20BB+…
If there would be crazy action behind, i could find a fold. But never vs. 1 guy

MASTERHOLMES
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June 1, 2013 - 12:05 pm
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hey guys as i read you response,, do you prefer a flat here instead of the shove  ? as ptkzor says call any action,, while packallama says never foldinng,, but didnt' say shove.

p1kZoR
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June 1, 2013 - 12:50 pm
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I prefer the shove preflop. Obv it doesnt matter, because if u just flat, pot would be around 3.4k and u would have 2.6k behind.
And ur villain got a huge stack, so thr only flops he might fold are something like AKQ flop and he had 99… But than u miss to get full double up

If he has AK and flop comes like: 226 he would call ur rest of chips with A high anyway

So i think preflop shove is better, because u get all worse hands preflop all in like 55-TT (he might be just isolating the 16bb stack with a medium pocket?) And if he has QQ+ or AQ/AK u have the same result, as if u flat his 3bet, and push on any flop…

packallama
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June 1, 2013 - 6:59 pm
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Never flatting a 3b w/ 16bbs unless it's stupidly small. Just 4b shove for value and be happy about it. We only have 16.3bbs so I would usually just shove preflop with my entire range unless I thought there were fishy players at the table who would not view it as mega-strength.

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June 1, 2013 - 7:19 pm
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ok here is the real question,,

does the fact i ran into kings just mean it was bad luck,, for it was the standard play and we could of easily ran into tens, nines, ace king ace queen where we are happy to flip ?

not being result oriented , i think as i told one of you guys in the pm that the 3bet means he wants a shove,, instead of a fold.. for he must realize i dont' have a lot of chips left.

 

if he just shoved instead of 3bet,, is it a happy snap fist call for we have to get some chips ?.

packallama
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June 1, 2013 - 7:33 pm
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Villain should never 3b shove preflop because he is so deep with other players at the table. He is going to 3b all of his hands that he wants to get in preflop. I doubt anyone bluffs in this spot considering your 16bb 2.5x, but could have bluffs if you had a over 20bbs. After raising, you shouldn't fold to his 3b even if you think he is really tight and you are behind his range because you are getting a good price. He is UTG+1 so he has the tightest range at the table to GII, but with that said, I think we are at least 50% vs his range. Don't be results oriented in a spot like this. No one is getting away from JJ in this spot and nor should they. 

p1kZoR
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June 2, 2013 - 10:27 am
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I would be happy to get it in with JJ and 16bbs 🙂 nomatter what other person have. JJ is one of the better hands u could get with 16bb stack

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