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$1,650 HPT Event - Interesting hand
JLUDEOBV
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April 29, 2012 - 4:53 pm
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This is an interesting hand that I played in the $1,650 HPT Event. Would like some feedback on my line and if anyone can pull the trigger on the river. 2nd level of the tournament. Blinds are 100-200. Not sure on stack sizes exactly but everyone has around the starting stack of 30k. UTG limps, MP limps, Button limps, I complete SB with 105cc, and BB checks. 1,000 in the pot. Flop comes 662 and checks around. Turn is a 2 and it checks around to the button who bets 1,000. I think for a bit and make it 3,000. It folds to button and he calls. 7,000 in the pot now. River is a J and I bet 5,000. How's my line for repping a 6? I thought it looked really strong. Villain tanks for a bit and makes it 10,000. I had 23,000 behind and contemplated ripping it in. Villain was a good/competent player and was def capable of making a play with air here. The only thing that scared me was that my line looks so strong that when he min raises river and he has to have the nuts right? I tank folded and said “I can't believe I'm foldng this.” Thoughts?

Cougars4444
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April 29, 2012 - 10:02 pm
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This is interesting.  The first thing you have to ask yourself is if this is really necessary at 100/200 no ante, 150bbs deep.  I do think your hand looks decently strong but wouldn't we probably be leading the turn here with a 6 to start building a pot as opposed to going for a c/r?.  The other thing is was whether this was reentry or not?  I think that plays a big factor because he may be willing to go ahead and reregister here if somehow you have a bigger 6 then him. 

 

I'd just go ahead and fold this hand on the turn to his action.  It just doesn't seem necessary this early in the tournament and here we are now with T high already invested 25% of our stack into a pot that initially had 1k in it.  Def should be able to find better spots then this.

pokerkids
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April 29, 2012 - 11:26 pm
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Fold pre, Fold Turn, and Fold River. This just seems so -EV to go after 10bb right here when you have 150bb. I assume this tournament is full of fishy players, who we can vlaue bet to death when we do hit our hands early in the tournament. If this guy is a competent player like you said, then he is just going to fold his air on the turn. If he had something like 33-55, 77-99 he would bet it on the flop, but if he didnt, then he would most likely fold to your check raise because he wouldn’t expect you to be bluffing here this early in a good structured tourney. He is definitely not going to float your turn c/r to bluff you on the river. We are just gift wrapping him chips. Since the board was 6622 it doesn’t matter what his kicker is so you will never be able to get him off a 6, but that would be suicide anyway. Let’s just save our chips for better spots. People are more than willing to spew off chips to us when we have the nuts, so let’s not return the favor. Sorry if this came off as strong, but we should never be involved in this spot EVER;)

 

The most important thing here is that you are not representing a 6, and in order for our bluffs to work they need to make sense and tell a story. To rep a 6, we would/should be leading turn, especially into 5 people, to build a pot. If we did have a 6, we lose all sorts of value by checking the turn. Discounting quads we have the nuts on this board, raising turn would also be losing us value, we fold out hands that we would want to keep putting money in the pot (small pairs and Ace high type hands).

JLUDEOBV
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April 30, 2012 - 1:30 am
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Meh, agree to the above posts to an extent. I strongly believe that against good/competent players you should take weird lines in certain spots in an attempt to chip up. By weird I mean yeah a majority of the time you should lead here with a 6 in an attempt to build the pot, but I like to take weird lines against high level thinking players in an attempt to out level them. Was this one of these spots? I think there’s an argue for both sides. I could list about 10 other hands where I had air and made plays as well. One thing I failed to mention was that villain and I had 3b eachother a couple times in the first level and he called down my 3 barrel when I had 64s UTG with 2nd pair. Yeah we are 150 bb’s and it’s pre ante, it’s a live tournament where you don’t see very many hands per hour. Therefore you should be playing more pots and picking spots to bluff when you are deep enough to do it. Another thing, this is a $1,650 tournament. Much different than some $10 tournament online. The guy later told me he had A high. Do I believe him? Ah possibly… if that’s the case though, how sick would that of been if I ripped it in on the river? This is like a 5th level thinking play. I obv don’t play this hand like this against a random… this guy is a well known live player and one of the best I’ve played with.

chip chimp71
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April 30, 2012 - 4:08 am
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JLUDEOBV said:

This is like a 5th level thinking play. I obv don't play this hand like this against a random… this guy is a well known live player and one of the best I've played with.

 

Then he's probably not being completely honest with you and revealing his hand when he stated he had an A, he was trying to level you and get you to stack off later IMO.

 

The other comments above I completely agree with, not enough in the pot to start getting too cute. Sure it's ok to play speculative hands early in a tournament when # of BBs dictate, but you need to know your position/stack size/& table images to make these moves. The question that he was probably asking himself was, “Why would he lead out with a hand as strong as he repping?” if he was a deeper thinking player (He thinks that I think that he thinks…)

TiltedEV
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April 30, 2012 - 5:37 pm
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Like everyone else i question the neccesity of bluffing here. But we're already in this spot so have to go with it. I think it sounds like given the dynamic you're suggesting it's a good time for him to be bluffing here sometimes. Personally I don't think your hand looks strong at all, given that our villain knows you are a good poker player. Which is good for us because that means his river raise is air a little bit more. So I think as played we need to be shoving the river and if he has it (and he definetly will sometimes)  gg.

 

There's one good thing about his raise on the river. His hand is super polarized, which means we won't be heroing our shove with A high or anything. He has it or he doesn't.

FkCoolers
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April 30, 2012 - 7:05 pm
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We complete in the SB in a multiway limped pot which means there are several 6x hands in our range and we're still getting played back at. As played it looks like you're repping a 6. If there was no flush draw on board we'd check our 6 on the flop and we'd check the turn again obviously. 

Thing is, I hate doing these stone bluffs with small blinds and antes when we're playing a hand that has no equity whatsoever so I'd have just folded to his 1k bet on the button.

TiltedEV
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April 30, 2012 - 10:51 pm
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What coolers said basically. But as played are you going to be shoving is the bottom line I think.

JLUDEOBV
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May 1, 2012 - 12:00 am
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Agree with coolers and tilted. Really through me off guard when he min-raised me on the river. Yeah I bluffed off 9k of my stack in a spot where most people probably would've folded pre… the point of this post was to point out the fact that I feel like you have to attempt bluffs like this in live tournaments in an attempt to chip up for the simple fact that we aren't going to be that deep for much longer. Next level is 200-400 then 300-600 then 400-800. Each level is 40 mins so in 2 hours (30 hands) we will have 40ish bb's. I played this tournament for 7 hours and saw JJ and AQs. Only other pocket pair was 33, no other good aces, and no broadway cards. I think our play in live tournaments definitely needs to open up in the early levels and play more pots when we are deep enough to do so. Some people think we should nit it up and there's no point to get involved. I completely disagree with this statement. We are better post flop players than most, so why not take advantage of that when we are deep enough? Pick good spots to chip and if you get caught like I did here, you are still plenty deep. Plays like this are going to work more often than not. 

Thanks for the feedback guys. Good luck at the tables.

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