View Plans & Pricing

If you are signed in and are seeing this message, please be sure you have selected a user name in My Profile. The forum requires it.
A A A
Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Topic Rating: 1 Topic Rating: 1 Topic Rating: 1 Topic Rating: 1 Topic Rating: 1 Topic Rating: 1 (1 votes) 
sp_TopicIcon
$1,200 gtd which line to take on the flop?
folding_aces_pre_yo
High Stakes Mario Kart Propping
Members
Forum Posts: 1133
Member Since:
September 14, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
July 28, 2015 - 9:13 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory
0
#Game No : 711113112
***** 888poker Hand History for Game 711113112 *****
$50/$100 Blinds No Limit Holdem – *** 
Tournament #70988210 $7.25 + $0.75 – Table #12 9 Max (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: ampm93 ( $2,477 )
Seat 2: KatyaShok ( $1,930 )
Seat 3: mvlasiuk ( $3,401 )
Seat 4: brys777 ( $3,585 )
Seat 5: audzixxx ( $6,939 )
Seat 7: PrinceChau ( $3,365 )
Seat 9: crax1905 ( $4,316 )
Seat 10: london_ace ( $2,948 )
PrinceChau posts ante [$10]
crax1905 posts ante [$10]
london_ace posts ante [$10]
ampm93 posts ante [$10]
KatyaShok posts ante [$10]
mvlasiuk posts ante [$10]
brys777 posts ante [$10]
audzixxx posts ante [$10]
crax1905 posts small blind [$50]
london_ace posts big blind [$100]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to london_ace [ 6c, Th ]
ampm93 folds
KatyaShok folds
mvlasiuk folds
brys777 folds
audzixxx raises [$200]
PrinceChau folds
crax1905 folds
london_ace calls [$100]
** Dealing flop ** [ Tclub, 6spade, 4club ]
london_ace ???
 
 
Hey
 
 
reads – V has been very active , raising a bunch , not seen any hands showdown.
 
which line would you take here, c/r small or c/s? or maybe leading? 
 
I personally think check/shoving here is good, i'd do this with most of my semi bluff hands like 87, 57, 53, and flush draws.
 
cheers 🙂
Foucault

TPE Pro
Members
Forum Posts: 2067
Member Since:
December 6, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
July 28, 2015 - 11:03 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
1

Fold pre-flop. I'd ck/call flop. Definitely don't like donking, you block a lot of your value targets and are not really that vulnerable to a free card, because V probably isn't checking many draws.

Mr Longhit
Playing Freerolls
Members
Forum Posts: 14
Member Since:
July 9, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
July 28, 2015 - 11:45 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I agree with Foucault.

I wouldnt expect to realize my equity more than 50% of the time on avg with my BB call range OOP.

I would fold T6o but call T8o+.

 

Your potodds preflop are 18,5 %.

If you realize 50% of your equity, your hand need to have 37% equity to call. (Not your range)

 

Against a CO RFI range like this: 22+,A2s+,K7s+,Q9s+,J9s+,T8s+,97s+,86s+,76s,65s,A9o+,A5o-A2o,K9o+,QTo+

 

T6o has 34,7 %

T8o has 37,4 %

theginger45

TPE Pro
Members
Forum Posts: 924
Member Since:
August 25, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
July 29, 2015 - 1:40 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Agree with Andrew that this is too wide to defend preflop. Your BB defending range should be closely correlated with how well you're able to play the hand postflop versus the villain in question, and if you're going to justify defending a hand as weak as T6o then you need to be really comfortable playing flops like these in a way that allows you to extract max value, to compensate for how often you're going to end up check-folding.

I don't think you can have a check-shove range here given how deep you are. I think a check-raise to 700 or more (depending on villain's c-bet sizing) is fine here if you have the kind of image that might lead villain to think your bluff range is a little wider here (and thus potentially peel with a slightly weaker range/bluff-shove versus your raise a little more often), but generally I like Andrew's plan of check-calling, since most of the hands that will give you value on the flop are likely to bet most turns anyway, and a villain like this is fairly likely to try to put pressure on your weak BB defending range by firing a lot of second barrels.

BotswanaNick
Playing Freerolls
Members
Forum Posts: 18
Member Since:
July 15, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
July 29, 2015 - 2:47 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory
0

I think at this stack size, I would check/call flop and check/shove safe turns.

 

Andrew, I am surprised to see you advocating a fold pre. Isn't this a min-raise from cutoff with antes (unless I'm reading HH wrong)? I thought I'd seen you advocate defending with worse hands against min-opens from earlier positions than this. Is it because we are too deep, or because our hand is too weak, or for another reason I'm missing? 

jacobsharktank
Florida
Playing The Prelims
Members
Forum Posts: 547
Member Since:
December 24, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
July 29, 2015 - 9:39 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I'm probably folding this preflop because you have to defend any piece vs an aggressive opener unless they check back flops a lot otherwise you're not realizing your equity, and I don't think I'd want to defend the kinds of gutshots youll be getting. If this were suited, I'd snap defend because I'm a fish but youll be able to defend the flop more frequently, at least I believe so anyway. 

If villain's tendencies are to cbet once and shut down, then I'd check/call and lead turns because if he has something worth continuing he'll call or raise, and if he doesn't he likely wasn't putting in money anyway. I don't want to give him the option of checking back the turn. 

If they're triple barrel happy, you have a pretty sweet bluff catcher and can just ck/call down and gii on the river. Your range looks capped because a lot of cards can be scary on run outs, but if they're the type to triple barrel because they think they can rep everything, I think this is a good way to get value.

 

If they double barrel, ck/call and ck/shove I guess.

 

If you think villain is thinking about his own image but still has like a 90% cbet, then I think you'd want a check/raise small range here but I'm not sure what's best to put in there. The reason I'd want one is I think villain could realize you know what's up and lower theyre turn or river frequency significantly, which could actually put you in a tough spot equity-wise, but you wouldn't know it. I don't know how much adjusting goes on in stars micros. WPN micros don't really have adjusting happening except reg vs reg, and even then I'm not sure if I'm reading it correctly or if it's just sample size.

 

I really like Mr Longhits written explanation for defending. I haven't thought about it with a 50% benchmark before. I think about what the minimum is when the situations come up, but this is way easier. I think it should vary on the kind of hand you have, because it's easier to realize your equity (play postflop oop) with some hands more than others. 

folding_aces_pre_yo
High Stakes Mario Kart Propping
Members
Forum Posts: 1133
Member Since:
September 14, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
July 30, 2015 - 12:14 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0
This is the action after the flop
london_ace checks
audzixxx bets [$265]
london_ace raises [$699]
audzixxx calls [$434]
** Dealing turn ** [ 4spade ]
london_ace ??
 
 
hero has around $2000 (20bb) left in their stack, what do u do here?  
 
I think it's unlikely v has called the flop raise with a hand like A4s/K4s  , so i think shoving is best here , i'm sure we are getting called
by worse so often here imo.
folding_aces_pre_yo
High Stakes Mario Kart Propping
Members
Forum Posts: 1133
Member Since:
September 14, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
July 30, 2015 - 12:22 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory
0

@macdog90 ,I like c/r small here because we may get villian to 3-bet shove with Tx  , we could also c/c flop and allow v to barrel of with weaker hands and maybe allow them to bluff with their air part of there range as well , which is all well and good. Only problem is that the flop is a bit drawy , if the turn is a club  we check v bets , we're going to be put in a tough spot , so i'd much rather get the money in on the flop.

 

@ginger , don't see why we can't have a check shoving range here? we are not really deep , at around 30bb effective..

 

@jabcob , nice post! 

Foucault

TPE Pro
Members
Forum Posts: 2067
Member Since:
December 6, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
9
July 30, 2015 - 12:54 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

folding_aces_pre_yo said:

@macdog90 ,I like c/r small here because we may get villian to 3-bet shove with Tx  , we could also c/c flop and allow v to barrel of with weaker hands and maybe allow them to bluff with their air part of there range as well , which is all well and good. Only problem is that the flop is a bit drawy , if the turn is a club  we check v bets , we're going to be put in a tough spot , so i'd much rather get the money in on the flop.

 

@ginger , don't see why we can't have a check shoving range here? we are not really deep , at around 30bb effective..

 

@jabcob , nice post! 

You're probably going to stack Tx anyway, and I don't think your decision is at all tough on a club turn (don't fold).

folding_aces_pre_yo
High Stakes Mario Kart Propping
Members
Forum Posts: 1133
Member Since:
September 14, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10
July 30, 2015 - 12:56 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

@long , how did u get 18.5% for pre flop odds?

 

i'm getting 2.8 to 1 on the call , unless i'm doing the maths wrong.

folding_aces_pre_yo
High Stakes Mario Kart Propping
Members
Forum Posts: 1133
Member Since:
September 14, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11
July 30, 2015 - 1:01 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

@foucault , yeah you're right , if v range conist of Tx the money is going in anyway , so may as well let him barrel off. Wouldnt mind ck/shove turn though 🙂

Thomps
Home Game Champ
Members
Forum Posts: 32
Member Since:
July 21, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12
July 30, 2015 - 2:58 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

folding_aces_pre_yo said:

@long , how did u get 18.5% for pre flop odds?

 

i'm getting 2.8 to 1 on the call , unless i'm doing the maths wrong.

The 18.5% is right (well it's 18,9%) but you are actually getting 4.3 to 1 odds smile

jacobsharktank
Florida
Playing The Prelims
Members
Forum Posts: 547
Member Since:
December 24, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13
July 30, 2015 - 8:56 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

just in case you need it-

 

8 players x 10 = .8bb, sb = .5bb, bb = 1bb, raise = 2

total= 4.3 to 1 or 1/5.3 or 18.9%

Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 2780

Currently Online:
21 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

bennymacca: 2616

Foucault: 2067

folding_aces_pre_yo: 1133

praetor: 1033

theginger45: 924

P-aire 146: 832

Turbulence: 768

The Riceman: 731

duggs: 591

florianm1: 588

Newest Members:

Tillery999

sdmathis89

ne0x00

adrianvaida2525

Anteeater

Laggro

Forum Stats:

Groups: 4

Forums: 24

Topics: 12705

Posts: 75003

 

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1063

Members: 12008

Moderators: 2

Admins: 5

Administrators: RonFezBuddy, Killingbird, Tournament Poker Edge Staff, ttwist, Carlos

Moderators: sitelock, sitelock_1