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September 14, 2014
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#Game No : 749915958
***** 888poker Hand History for Game 749915958 *****
$1,000/$2,000 Blinds No Limit Holdem – ***
Tournament #76247657 $7.25 + $0.75 – Table #12 9 Max (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 7
Seat 1: Vetrova_N. ( $85,943 )
Seat 3: Kralle176 ( $89,861 )
Seat 4: 4y4y0T4e6y4y ( $43,543 )
Seat 5: acker75 ( $122,368 )
Seat 7: zaclouis ( $122,758 )
Seat 9: london_ace ( $104,701 )
Seat 10: Razzlez81 ( $57,826 )
acker75 posts ante [$250]
Vetrova_N. posts ante [$250]
london_ace posts ante [$250]
Razzlez81 posts ante [$250]
Kralle176 posts ante [$250]
4y4y0T4e6y4y posts ante [$250]
zaclouis posts ante [$250]
4y4y0T4e6y4y posts small blind [$1,000]
acker75 posts big blind [$2,000]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to london_ace [ 9
, T ]
zaclouis raises [$4,000]
london_ace raises [$9,999]
Razzlez81 folds
Vetrova_N. folds
Kralle176 folds
4y4y0T4e6y4y folds
acker75 folds
zaclouis calls [$5,999]
** Dealing flop ** [ 7
J, A
] $24,748
zaclouis bets [$3,105]
london_ace raises [$9,999]
zaclouis calls [$6,894]
** Dealing turn ** [ 7
] $44,746
zaclouis checks
london_ace checks
** Dealing river ** [ 6 ]
zaclouis checks
london_ace bets [$14,999]
zaclouis calls [$14,999]
Hey
reads – has been making quite a few calls pre and makes odd few raises here and there, not too much reads.
When v leads out on the flop their range may include some weak Ax maybe Jx or a hand like KQs/QTs/KTs. Once they call the flop raise i’m assuming they have Ax maybe KQs/QTs/KTs , doubtful though, more likely apocket pairs like TT/99.The turn does not really change much. I’m not to sure if i should be barreling turn? as for the river again that does not change much. I decided to bet 1/3 of the pot to get v to fold Jx medium pairs 99/TT, KQ and the like, I doubt he’s folding an ace ( if he has one) Thing is when v checks river there range seems rather marginal , i’m pretty sure they would bet Ax , which means they probably don’t have Ax in their range.
since v range is marginal , a small bet should be okay hero’s bet of 1/3 of the pot only needs to succeed like 25% of the time to break even. Does anyone disagree and think shoving river would be better?
as for hero’s range , my range is likely to include AK/AQs Dunno about AJs , monster hands like AA/JJ is unlikely as i would likely barrel a hand like JJ ott to get value from Ax and medium pairs. So i guess its rather unlikely that i have monsters in my range once i check back turn.
This hand was a tough one to be honest , all thoughts will be appreciated.
Cheers.
June 11, 2012
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hey,
I like your line pre and on the flop as you plan on continuing turns that improve our hand. And there are a lot of them.
I prolly continue on any spade (10), K,Q(8),8,6(8) so this is about 28 combos on which we can double barrel.
The turn is kind of bad for our actual hand but still ok for our hand as we can have more of the full house hands as we are probably reraising AA,JJ pre.
still as we have to give up some hands on the turn i think T9ss goes into that category on this exact turn
May 20, 2015
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Agree with florianm1 that the line you took both pre and on the flop are good. I would also be giving up on the turn, the turn is a brick and I don’t think villain will have enough folds. I think villain should have enough check/calls on the river to make bluffing unprofitable. Your turn check looks weak and V should be bluffing a lot of his missed draws on the river and check calling all of his marginal hands.
Interestingly Piosolver (postflop GTO solver) likes betting the turn, and also bets the river as played. However this is dependent on the ranges I’ve plugged in. Have V opening 14% and hero 3 betting 99+ A2s+ AJo+ KQo T9s+. What do we think of those ranges?
June 11, 2012
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can you post the tree and the results.
I have a hard time to believe that GTO is betting all three streets with close to no equity and only blocking some straights on the river
May 20, 2015
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Not sure how to post the tree.
Sorry I might not have been clear in my last post, Piosolver doesn’t bet all three streets. With Ts9s Piosolver bets the turn and gives up on river a very high percentage of the time. As played (checking turn) Piosolver turn Ts9s into a bluff 100% of the time.
January 20, 2014
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I used to like 3 betting w/ suited connectors a lot. If you do it against the right opponent they usually fold PF. They play really well post flop, and when you hit your opponents have a hard time putting you on a hand. But then we had Jonathan Little on the podcast and we talked about spots just like these. What he said was you should call with suited connectors like these instead of 3 betting them. He said you should be 3 betting your good hands, and 3 betting hands like J3o, K6o: a high blocker card with a low offsuit card. His said you want to see a flop with the suited connectors, so he argued for a call in spots like this instead of a raise.
So two months ago I would have liked this PF 3 bet a lot. Now I’m not so sure. Although I am still 3 betting 8% of my hands, nutted hands and the high blocker w/ low off suit, it seems to put me in more awkward spots than when I was doing it with the suited connectors. So I don’t know what is better here. Calling with your T9s, or 3 betting … I think they are both better than folding 🙂
May 20, 2015
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Will listen to the podcast now, obviously Jonathan Little is a great player and I’m sure he is better at constructing 3 betting ranges than me. That being said, I’m struggling to make sense of 3 betting J3o etc. in spots like this. I’m not sure how that can possibly be profitable. I think we can construct 3 betting ranges that consist of 3bet/calls and 3 bet/folds without including the high blocker/low offsuit combos which are gonna be horrible to play postflop. I also don’t think a J is great as a blocker as villains nutted range doesn’t have many J to begin with. I think flatting villains preflop raise would be fine and would likely be flatting/3betting dependent on villains fold to 3 bet stat.
May 20, 2015
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Listened to the strat talk in the podcast, really enjoyed it and have now become a subscriber. I think we need to be careful with how well the 3 betting range suggested by Jonathan in the example you talked about in the podcast translates to other situations. Jonathan suggested splitting our 3bet range into value hands we can easily 3bet call and blocker value hands we can easily 3bet fold. He suggested this as part of a BB strategy when playing HU, I don’t think that we should be using the same range when we are utg +1 facing a utg raise 7 handed. Here we are going to see a flop more often and need to focus on post flop playability with our full range, Jonathan did say on the podcast that if villain is likely to be calling instead of 4bet/folding we should not be splitting our range in the way he suggested.
June 11, 2012
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let me add some things here.
i think by constructing 3bet ranges there are a lot of factors that should come into the equation:
especially position and stack depth.
>30BB:
we should construct our value range that it plays well vs flats. Especially when 3betting from the SB or IPwhich we should So we are 3betting with a more linear range.
-from the BB where we are getting amazing prize to see a flop cheaply we should mainly 3bet polarized still with board coverage in mind
<30BB:
it is less likely to get flatted when stacks are shallow so we should construct our bluff 3betting range so that we block most of villains 4bet jamming range no matter from which position we do it
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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Just want to give props to these last two posts from kmid and florian. I had the same reaction when I heard JL’s advice, and I’m glad you guys put it into context. 3-betting J3o here would be a disaster. I wouldn’t even call the T9s mandatory. I mean, you shouldn’t 3bet often from UTG1, even your value range has to be pretty narrow, so it’s not like you get to throw a bunch of light 3bets in there. Even hands like AQ and AK start to blur the line between value and bluff.
September 14, 2014
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very good comments above , thank you so much.
I think 3-bet/f a value blocker range is fine in this spot if we knew v folds to 3-bet a lot especially hands like Ax , if suited thats better, we can include Kx and Qx as well. There’s a lot of variables involved as u know it really depends on your opponents tendencies/stacks and position and game flow and also depends on hero’s image as well.
i agree that you shouldn’t be 3-betting often from UTG1 since we are not always going to be 3-betting our monsters. if we have been playing tight and hero 3-bets a hand like T9s in this spot , i don’t think its bad play at all , if know v will fold often enough then its fine as played.
what If we think v will call here a lot to 3-bets would you still 3-bet T9s here?
personally i’d say yes , especially if v folds often to c-bets/double barrels or what have you lol.
January 20, 2014
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You’re right kmid, this wasn’t like the example in the podcast which was a blind vs blind example. This is starting to make a lot more sense to me now. I’m going to re-listen to that episode because after reading what you, florianm, and Andrew wrote, I missed some things. Thanks!
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