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10r, 15 from bubble 99 in sb
Psellos
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June 13, 2011 - 12:08 pm
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Hi guys, seem to be getting in alot of these spots near the bubble. Bebatos had been opening a reasonable amount hes 26/23 over 50 hands. what would be your line here? are you looking to get it in pre as only have 20bbs, or are you flatting here and evaluate the flop, figure most of the time im flipping at best if i shove.  is it a shove or fold situation with flatting being no good with my stack size.  i have no prob getting it in on the bubble if its optimal, we are playing to win right? but is this too marginal for a shove? even with TT instaed of 99, what are we thinking?
Poker Stars No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t500.00/t1000.00 Blinds 100 Ante – 9 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

mayajae (SB): t28243.00 28.24 BBs
Hero (BB): t20091.00 20.09 BBs
megamulk (UTG): t10203.00 10.20 BBs
Bebatos (UTG+1): t29099.00 29.10 BBs
Magnet_baks (UTG+2): t18075.00 18.07 BBs
ibens (MP1): t7780.00 7.78 BBs
Linnyke (MP2): t12211.00 12.21 BBs
Gologic (CO): t46327.00 46.33 BBs
V0nVenema (BTN): t34013.00 34.01 BBs

Pre Flop: (t1500) Hero is BB with 9 of hearts 9 of diamonds
1 fold, Bebatos raises to t3000, 6 folds, Hero??

hawkeyeK9
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June 13, 2011 - 12:33 pm
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There are couple things here that changes this from being a standard shove and we also need to know a couple extra pieces of information. How close to the bubble are you? Villian stats show pretty LAG, but has most of his opens been late position or is he opening in early position also? Is 3x his normal opening size? Do you think he has discipline to fold to 3bet shoves? These are important points to know in this situation in my opinion.

If villian has been opening 2.2-2.5x and only in late position, then I would be real suspicious of a UTG+1 3x open and would put him on a much stronger range. With all this said, I need more info to decide what to do here. I never nit it up around the bubble but there are still situational hands where you have to make a big lay down if it is -EV.

McLucky
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June 13, 2011 - 12:50 pm
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Flatting is out of the question with your stack. Shove, 3bet call / (shove any flop if he flats) or fold.

Nornally you are too short here to 3bet call and any thinking player will realize you are effectively shoving but if v low stakes not always the case so not out of the question imo. Shove is much much better tho. 

At first glance it's an easy shove for me with his stats but I'd want a bit more information

Additional factors leaning to shove:

He's been abusing the bubble and the table is nitty

His fold to 3bet stat is high

His EP raise % is a decent size

You have not been 3betting a lot / your image is on the nitty side

If on the other hand your image is LAG and/or you have been 3betting a reasonable amount / have history with him then if he's demonstrated he could spew here – (overvalues hands or makes hero calls pf with marginal aces or small to medium pairs) then still +1 for the shove.

 

 

Additional factors leading to folding:

His EP raise % is low

His 3x raise is not his standard or he's shown down big hands after 3xing previously while his normal open is 2xish

 

I know 50 hands isn't a lot to make all the above reads but these would be the things I would try to consider.

Shoving is higher variance but we are going for the win, depending on reads we are likely ahead of his range and there's t5,400 out there waiting to be collected when he doesn't call & double us up!

Psellos
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June 13, 2011 - 2:18 pm
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hi guys thanks for your input had a look in my HM over the previous few orbits. we are 15 from the money bubble on the last hand, 180 paid with 195 remaining. Here is how the action went, hope it not too long winded for you. his EP raise% was 18%(11)

blinds 300/600 50ante

i open  for 1255 from hj, he 3bets from btn to 3800, i fold

Next hand, UTG shoves for 9k, he reshoves btn with AJs, hits J on river to crack 66

Nexthand, he opens from HJ for 1800 all folds

3 hands pass, then i open from btn for 1255,blinds fold.

blinds 400/800 75

5 hands pass, i open AQo utg for 1655, 3 bet to 7k by supernit so i fold

1 hand passes, i 3bet CO open with AQ, all folds

3 hands pass, i open from co with TJo for 1655, bebatos 3bets to 4950, i fold

2 hands pass, he opens from CO for 2350, all folds

next hand, he opens for 2400 all folds

5 hands pass, he opens in sb for 2k bb folds

next hand i open 77 for 1655 from MP all folds

4 hands pass i get 99 in BB GG

may have gone a bit overboard with this one sorry about that but ive written it now.lol thanks guys

 

 

 

bjizzle44
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June 13, 2011 - 4:29 pm
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dont hate jamming but really love folding. sure we can find better spots/easier decisions than this 1.

 

bjizz

Pettman18
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June 14, 2011 - 8:38 am
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Aslong as the BB doesnt wake up with a hand this is purely a math problem –

 

What do we guess his range is for calling a 20bb shove?

 

How much do we stand to win if he folds?

How much equity do we have vs his calling range?

hawkeyeK9
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June 14, 2011 - 10:39 am
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I think I could go either way on this one after you gave us some more info. Since he has not shown a lot of opens in early position I think I lean more towards a fold.

hapetimes
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June 14, 2011 - 6:58 pm
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never flatting here

i also think you could go either way

 

he's EP and is committed to at least one reshove behind him (the SS) and even if the 12bb stack reships he would be getting 2:1 so would probably be calling here too, makes me think he's not light

 

i'd give a slight edge toward folding than shoving in this case

 

wouldn't be a bad spot to double through the most aggressive villain and decimate the rest of the table at the bubble though!

DroppinDimes
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June 14, 2011 - 10:21 pm
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Jam/fold/flat for me smile

Psellos
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June 15, 2011 - 8:04 am
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thanks for your imput guys has been very helpful, as i said find myself in this spot alot, think i may be able to find the fold button a bit more in the future, generally i have been jamming here in similar spots and am usually flipping, which i see is too high variance in this situation against this sort of opponent. In this particular hand i jammed, got called by AQcc and lost he flip so you are all right with your reads on the situation. Also looking back he reshoved AJs from the button for 60% of his stack to a utg 15bb shove early in the action i described so dont think he is ever folding to my shove in this spot.  will definately be giving this more thought in future instead of just seeing i have a mid pair with 15-20bb, lets get it in. thanks again.

mmfitter
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June 16, 2011 - 7:10 pm
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Snap shove vs 18% ep opener. He's folding alot of hands he's opening with and we scoop the 5500. If he calls, the number of hands that we are ahead of or are flipping with, far outnumber

the hands that have us crushed. Even then, we will win 1/5 times. All that adds up to a +ev spot we cannot afford not to make w a 20 bb stack and almost 200 pple still left.

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