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$10 5k guarantee on Ignition - AA facing raise on the turn
chazmoney99
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January 6, 2018 - 2:44 pm
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Just sat down at this table, only 3 hands in so not able to get any solid reads yet. 

*** Starting Chips ***
Big Blind [ME]: 20346
UTG: 12230
UTG+1: 18040
UTG+2: 7650
UTG+3: 10865
UTG+4: 10020
Dealer: 9690
Small Blind: 10420

Blinds: 30/60

*** Hero Cards ***
Hero Cards: Aspade,Aclub

*** Hand Action ***
UTG Folds
UTG+1 Folds
UTG+2 Raises 180
UTG+3 Folds
UTG+4 Folds
Dealer Folds
Small Blind Call 150
Big Blind [ME] Raises 675
UTG+2 Call 495
Small Blind Call 495

*** Flop ***
Flop (2025 chips): [Kheart,3heart,2heart]

Small Blind Checks
Big Blind [ME] Bets 875
UTG+2 Folds
Small Blind Call 875

*** Turn ***
Turn (3775 chips): [3diamond]
Small Blind Checks
Big Blind [ME] Bets 1750
Small Blind Raises 4500
Big Blind [ME]……

I guess the first things I am wondering about is my preflop and then flop sizing.  Preflop I figured 1 of the 2 were calling at this level in this small buy in tournament so I wanted to force them to make a mistake by calling a larger size. 

On the flop I made the mistake of making what would be my normal sizing on a dry board instead of making a bigger sizing with the assumption I would get called by hands with a King, Ace of hearts or possibly something like QJ with the Q of hearts… 

The turn card seemed decent for me thinking that villain didn’t have any 3’s in his range and that I was still ahead of most of his range with the exception of possibly 22. Given the pot size and wet board texture should I have just shoved this turn instead?? Maybe a larger bet sizing to charge someone drawing with a heart. Without the Ace of hearts I just didn’t see how I could possibly be good here and didn’t really have any more outs to better hands.

Foucault

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January 7, 2018 - 11:33 am
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Looks good to me, if you folded turn. I think you are way too focused on the possibility of someone holding a heart. Especially when you are deep, protecting the $ that remains in your stack tends to be more important than protecting your equity in the pot. It just seems like you are thinking in terms of “How do I maximize my chances of winning this pot?” rather than “How do I maximize my EV?”, which would require balancing your interest in protection with your interest in not putting money in bad.

chazmoney99
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January 7, 2018 - 4:11 pm
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Thanks Andrew. That makes sense for sure. I did fold and he showed the 9diamond2diamondso I hate to admit that I got outplayed in this situation.  What do you think about an open/shove on the turn to try and force him to make a call for his tournament life? Too early for that?

Foucault

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January 8, 2018 - 8:08 am
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I think that’s a perfect example of what I was trying to warn you against in my first post 😉

Richard
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January 8, 2018 - 8:19 am
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chazmoney99 said
Thanks Andrew. That makes sense for sure. I did fold and he showed the 9diamond2diamondso I hate to admit that I got outplayed in this situation.  What do you think about an open/shove on the turn to try and force him to make a call for his tournament life? Too early for that?  

I beieve that’s a bit results oriented, there isn’t really much value in that play, I think you should mostly either be looking to get value from Kx or Ax with a heart or checking back turn since that 3 isn’t too great for you, overshoving the turn always gets called by better than what you’re holding, 3x, flushes etc and gives villain a chance to comfortably fold stronger hands than you want him to comfortably fold like KJs.

All in all villain isn’t repping only nuts when raising the turn, it’s much easier to make up a justification to yourself to why you should be raising as a bluff than to be dealt AJhh in villains shoes, so I believe we should have some hands that can continue that aren’t flushes if we do bet turn. I think AA without a heart wouldn’t be a bad candidate to add. Personally I’m not comfortable defending only AA/AK with the ace of hearts, AQhh (AJhh) and KK. I think that might be too tight if I want to doublebarrel some bluffs and the occasional KQs and all my AK. either way it’s close, you probably don’t need to call many more comboes than the nutted ones

 

I don’t remember who said it’s fine to overfold a bit if villain has to get really creative to find bluffs,  here however i don’t think it’s too hard for a random villain to find hands to bluff that floated the flop so I wouldn’t start going crazy folding (he can tell himself things like it look super strong, you can never have 3x etc etc or whatever he feels like telling himself at the time)

Nas47
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January 8, 2018 - 8:31 pm
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Foucault said
Looks good to me, if you folded turn. I think you are way too focused on the possibility of someone holding a heart. Especially when you are deep, protecting the $ that remains in your stack tends to be more important than protecting your equity in the pot. It just seems like you are thinking in terms of “How do I maximize my chances of winning this pot?” rather than “How do I maximize my EV?”, which would require balancing your interest in protection with your interest in not putting money in bad.  

Hi Andrew,

I was wondering what our continuing range will be vs the turn raise? Did you advocate folding with the assumption that villain has some made flushes in his range that we are almost dead against? Thanks

chazmoney99
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January 8, 2018 - 9:26 pm
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Foucault said
I think that’s a perfect example of what I was trying to warn you against in my first post 😉  

I hear ya. An “Andrews school of hard knocks” lesson: Stack protection over ego protection. 🙂

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