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January 10, 2017
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So mid May is probably the worst possible time to have my stack depleted and my confidence shaken. It has been a rough two weeks at the tables with a couple of sessions particularly painful. One 1/2 sessions and two 2/5 session resulted in a net loss of about $2600 Not life changing or anything but enough to sting my relatively low bank roll. The majority of these losses occurred in just sick cooler situations. One hand I had 99 and got it in heads up on a flop of 976 vs 77. The board ran out spades and I lost to his flush. Yesterday I called 15 pre with 44, the flop was AK4, guy bet 50, shorty shoved for less, and I bet 200 trying to induce a shove. He obliged and jammed with AK. While I got what I wanted, the poker gods didn’t cooperate as the turn was an ace. My question is this, when you guys take a major hit (I am sure that definition is relative) is there anything in particular you do to stay positive and maintain your confidence. Rationally I know that these hands boiled down to standard variance, but it still rattled me and I noticed during my session today I made a couple of minor mistakes and played somewhat tentatively in a couple of spots. With the series coming up soon any advice you guys have would be greatly appreciated.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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I know it’s not pleasant to hear, but if $2600 is a blow that your bankroll is going to feel, you probably shouldn’t be playing 2/5. Five hundred big blinds is not even a particularly bad run. I think you know that rationally there’s not a lot to rattle your confidence here. It’s quite easy to point to the bad luck that resulted in these losses. That you managed to put so much money in so good *ought* to be a source of confidence for you.
So why isn’t it? Seems like it’s because you’re overly wrapped up, emotionally, in short term results. And why is that? Well, to some degree everyone is (it amazes me how much I still am, despite fifteen years on the variance train), but if you aren’t bankrolled for the games you’re playing, then that’s certainly going to exacerbate the problem.
January 10, 2017
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Yes I think bank roll is part of the problem. Was up to a little over $9k before the recent downswing. I have a well paying job that pays the bills but I try to keep my poker income completely separate. I also won a little home WSOP league this year and will be going out to Vegas for a week or so and I don’t want to have to “worry” about other buy ins if things don’t go well in the Monster Stack.
FWIW, I have been tracking everything on my app since I joined TPE around 18 months ago and the overall trend on my graph has been very positive. This site has definitely provided a positive return on investment. A friend of mine who is one of the best players in the area sent me a message the other day and said that my “play has improved dramatically since you started following Brokos!” I keep telling him you are the man, but he is a cash player and uses a different site.
February 5, 2015
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Andrew is the man, no question. Although I make a conscious effort not to be such a fanboy, the truth is, I would follow the man not only to the gates of Poker Hell, but even through them without the slightest hesitation. I am a true disciple, and I could never give him up in the Garden Of Gethsemanie. Ok now im just talking crap.
A thing happened to me last year. Although a winning SNG’er for years, my overall Sharkscope graph resembled the trajectory of a golden eagle taking out a rodent from height due my tournament record. Not the best analogy, because there were ups and down along the way, but you get the idea.
But at the beginning of last year, I decided it was high time I took at least some money out of the game. So I decided to concentrate mainly on SNG’s, and…crucially…to stick to bankroll limits in the tournament’s and SNG’s I play.
The result? My graph is now pointing firmly upwards, and for a year and a half now.
I had heard pros talk of the importance of BR management. But until I implemented some discipline in to my own, i didnt truly comprehend how vital it is.
If you are playing outside your bankroll limits, you are setting yourself up to fail.
WRT downswing, I know how easy it was for me to fall in to a mental cycle where I’d start to experience bad beats regularly, begin to lose, then start expecting to lose. This perpetuated the cycle, and the downswing.
I found a fix.
I am not superstitious in general, but I am around my poker chips, (which i shuffle in my hands as i play and do tricks with), and I have deliberately allowed this superstition to grow. Before my session, I shuffle my poker chips, of which there are about 30. I then select from the stacks the individual chips which feel lucky to me. I know it sounds nuts, but they really do stand out. I select 6. Then i play, and see how lucky they really are. Sometimes they are obviously duds, you can tell straight away. Usually, they take time to reveal their strength. But sometimes, you hit the jackpot, and select 6 super lucky chips…which see you through the whole day! If they are that lucky, I keep them until the luck fades from them, when I reselect some different chips.
It is nuts, I know, but it has the very real benefit to me that it stops me from beginning to expect to lose…if my lucky chips aren’t working.. .I change em up!
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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Thanks for the kind words guys! Of course bankroll management is more important for professionals and they must be more conservative with it. However, I think even for non-pros it is at least a psychological help. You may be able to afford losing $2500, but it still seems to be taking a toll on you psychologically. If you keep playing 2/5, you should expect to have many more -$2500 streaks, and even some larger ones. You need to steel yourself for that one way or the other. Or, I guess, just hope to run hot forever, but that’s not the approach I recommend 😉
January 10, 2017
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Yeah I have decided to move back to 1/2 for now. The rake is tough to stay ahead of at 1/2 but the play here in Tampa is atrocious at that level and easy to beat. I heard a golf pro explain one time that bad players shouldn’t go to the range often because they are just repeating mistakes and ingraining the bad swings. Sometimes I feel that 1/2 ingrains some bad poker habits because it is most profitable to simply play an exploitative style. A truly balanced approach would not be nearly as profitable against so many loose passive players. But I do have this site and some friends that are excellent players to discuss hands with and talk about what the bettter play would be agains better opponents.
February 5, 2015
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Hello TW, pleased to make your acquaintance.
So long as you have at least some idea what balanced play might look like in a situation, exploitative (exploitive? I just Googled it, it’s either/or) play is the more profitable usually.
I don’t play much cash, but I had a hard time at first maintaining interest playing, say, a $5 T buy-in. I found I just wasn’t interested, and punted off my stack too often. I had to re-calibrate my thought process. By throwing these $5 T’s in to my schedule I could, on the other end, put in some $30 T’s with a juicy payout. By keeping my average buy-in in mind, and repeating to myself that this discipline is the way to profitability for me, I have found that I am able to give my best to the $5 T. Long gone are the days I’d play a $110 T on a $400 roll. That was rarely going to end well, and it never did for me. (Although, as an aside, playing way outside your roll is a huge short cut to jumping up the buy-in ladder, if you can make it work…).
TW said:
“I heard a golf pro explain one time that bad players shouldn’t go to the range often because they are just repeating mistakes and ingraining the bad swings.”
I love this.
Edit: I guess you are a live player, so my “lucky poker chip” routine is not helpful to you…you’d look utterly nuts selecting your lucky chips for the day! Nobody can see me behind my computer!
January 10, 2017
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Rice man – Yes I am guessing I am one of the few on this site that plays mostly live poker. Used to play online back in the old days but haven’t been back since Black Friday. Like many players I started out playing tournaments and that is what I enjoyed. Cash certainly doesn’t give me the same rush as winning an MTT. However, once I really started pushing myself and really studying, I found that cash is an easier way to consistently make a profit. I used to do very well at the daily tournaments here but with the awful rake and bad structure, those things are extremely difficult to make money at long term.
June 19, 2019
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Playing poker for an extended period of time will give you opportunities to see both the natural upswings and downswings that can take place. One of the keys to long term success is to make sure that you don’t contribute to the downswings by playing poorly, tilting, etc. This is how many players destroy their bankroll and their confidence. If you are in the midst of a downswing but are experiencing obvious coolers and your quality of play isn’t diminishing then feel free continue playing. However, if you recognize that you are making poor decisions, pushing the issue, or playing on emotion then it’s definitely time for a break.
I recently went through a small downswing myself where I was losing some incredibly unlucky hands. However, I recognized that I was playing well and that it would eventually end so I kept playing. Five years ago, I would have probably chased those losses and made it much worse, possibly even losing my bankroll. Because I was playing well, it was a quick and easy recovery of the part of my bankroll that was lost during the downswing. Maintaining confidence and staying positive is critical to fighting your way through a challenging part of poker that happens to us all.
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