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Profiling Female Players in Live Tournaments
MauiPokerQ
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November 16, 2014 - 8:34 pm
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I'm hoping a few of you will take a few moments and respond…  I'm going to list 3 types of female players below and I would like to know what Baseline Profile you would assign each one, and how you would play against them in general.  As a live game progresses we process table information to adjust our baseline profile obviously, but it would be interesting (and helpful) for me to hear what you have to say on this.  It can take several orbits before any patterns emerge, or you may be moved to a new table or them to yours later in a T, so assigning a baseline happens frequently, and sometimes at critical stages of a tournament.  As a female player I know most men make assumptions about the way we play which is different from what you may assign to males, so don't worry about offending me 🙂  LOL

 

For each player type I would like to know what you profile them for:

Level of Thinking / poker knowledge

Passive – Aggresive scale / Loose – Tight Scale

Opening Ranges by position

and How you would adjust your play to them

    (3 bet / 4 bet frequency, floating, calling OOP etc)

Based on Tournamnet Buy-ins in the $150 – $375 range.

Would anything be different if the Buy-In were higher – in the $500 – $2,000 range

 

Player 1: Female, between 21 and early 30's, svelte but dressed causal in sweats, T shirt hoodie, earphones in, not conversing with anyone, serious business like demeanor, most likely a local/reg.  Use T chip as a card protector.

 

Player 2:  Female, mid 30's – 40's, jeans, lumberjack shirt, stocky, butch hair cut, not all that friendly. Likes to give you the Death Stare in the eye. Has some symbolic heavy duty card protector.

 

Player 3:  Female, 50+, petite, dressed nicely with lots of jewelry and expensive handbag.  Chatty and friendly, from out of town (not a regular obviously).  Uses her sparkly crystal ring as a card protector.

 

Thank you in advance for any input you may like to give.  

NeverAA
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November 17, 2014 - 9:57 am
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Hey,

 

I ranked each category based on 10. Hope this would give you an idea at least about my perception. It would be pretty hard to write down how I would adjust my play in detail, but obviously I will take advantage of their tightness.

Buyin doesnt change anything for the last type in my opinion. It may increase the others tightness though.

 

Player1 :

level of thinking/ knowledge = 7

aggressiveness = 6

opening range loooseness = 5

Player2:

level of thinking/ knowledge = 5

aggressiveness = 4

opening range loooseness = 3

Player3:

level of thinking/ knowledge = 4

aggressiveness = 2

opening range loooseness = 1

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Killingbird
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November 17, 2014 - 2:03 pm
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Interestingly, my opinion of these players would not change much if ou changed female for male.

NeverAA
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November 17, 2014 - 5:26 pm
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Killingbird said:

Interestingly, my opinion of these players would not change much if ou changed female for male.

Yes it is very interesting. So dont you really think women players are tighter overall?

Based on my cash game and tournament experience, I can easily say that, but it would be interesting to know if this stat would change based on state, casino etc. I mostly play at the borgata, parx PA, and sometimes mohegan sun.

All tournaments at the borgata though.

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Killingbird
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November 17, 2014 - 8:34 pm
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Well, I think in general I might peg a woman as playing tighter if she was, let's say, wearing jeans and a t-shirt.

 

But if the girl is as you described in profile 1:

Female, between 21 and early 30's, svelte but dressed causal in sweats, T shirt hoodie, earphones in, not conversing with anyone, serious business like demeanor, most likely a local/reg.  Use T chip as a card protector.

 

I would probably make my first read of that person the same as I would …

 

Male, between 21 and early 30's, svelte but dressed causal in sweats, T shirt hoodie, earphones in, not conversing with anyone, serious business like demeanor, most likely a local/reg.  Use T chip as a card protector.

 

It def depends a bit on the location, casino, etc.  like if this was at, say a Venetian $5K it would be different that if was like a $110 at Binions.

 

And don't mistake my posts as some sort of “don't stereotype women” post, because I stereo type all the time when making initial reads.  Just ask my asian friends! cool

MauiPokerQ
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November 18, 2014 - 9:37 pm
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Excellent! Thank you. I know you’re teasing about the clothes but seriously first impressions and therefore baseline profiling are based on a number of factors and clothes and presentation are a huge part of that for women. Guys kinda dress all the same really, and mostly without much thought. But how women present themselves at the table says more about them then it says about guys. Hence my descriptive fashion profiling.

Anyway I just landed in Vegas today and hit my first WSOPC tommorow. I have been using TPE videos to sharpen my 3 bet and 4 bet range and tactics. I was describing myself in Profile 3 and your confirmation of my assumed profile will aid me in further manipulating my edge against opponents perceived image of me. I’ve been successfully manipulating that image for some time but this week I want to further my edge in certain areas I appreciate your responses !

MauiPokerQ
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November 18, 2014 - 9:40 pm
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PS. If you are playing in Vegas this week and see an older lady with a nice purse its not me – for reals brah. Just assume she’s super tight and passive and play accordingly

🙂

JD
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November 19, 2014 - 12:19 pm
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There are only a few profiles that would drastically (even that may be too strong of a word) change how I would play against someone:
Older women (especially older Asian women):  Reliably weak passive, never folding a draw, or a pair no matter how wet the board is.  If showing any aggression preflop I'm set mining with QQ if stacks are deep enough, probably folding to a double barrel with KK unimproved.
Young attractive Asian women:  They tend to be more aggressive and balanced, not afraid to put people in tough spots.  Overall good players, and I'm not going to get too out of line with them.  On average they probably don't think about the game as much as a typical TPE member, but way more than a typical small stakes cash/tournament player.
 
Middle aged foriegn men with thick accents:  They either play like every other small stakes players or they are full speed ahead on every street, check-raising every draw and top pair, calling off with some ridiculous holdings.  They can be difficult to play against, however they also tend to be tell-boxes.  It's like Mike Caro's book never got translated into whatever thier native language is.
Anyone wearing a hoodie, sunglasses, earbuds, ect:  They like to act and look like they are serious players seriously playing a serious game seriously, but then they make the same fundamental mistakes all small stake players make.  So I don't make any assumptions beyond being a small stakes player.  It just seems easier to notice when they haven't played a hand in 3 orbits, compared to say a chatty older lady.
Overall I think most people, females in particular, over estimate how much other people adjust their play against them based on their own profile at the smaller stakes.  With that said, if you see someone with a TPE patch (or similar patch; or anyone who utters the words “line” or “range”; or someone who updates their progress on Twitter) then go ahead and check raise 100% of dry flops.
Good luck at the tables.
MauiPokerQ
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November 22, 2014 - 5:58 pm
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A young guy at the table just asked me if my grandson taught me how to play poker after I made a button move against limpers then made a mathematically correct call to someone’s all in with 67o

LOL

joelshitshow
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November 23, 2014 - 2:43 pm
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That is awesome.

 

Just seeing this thread now, and I don't have much to add to the original post. I agree with others' responses so far. I think you're handling the concept of holding physical (nonpoker) image against people very well. So why am I replying?

 

There is one thing I do with this dynamic when I see it. I look at how other guys handle women at a table. There are maybe three categories that come to mind:

 

1) Flirts with her. This includes soft playing. You don't see this so much anymore because women are less of a novelty. (So when a guy sees a woman and treats it as a novelty, it shows inexperience.) But the types of questions she gets (such as whether your grandson has taught you the game) helps me figure out how easy it is to tilt a guy. Three-betting him right after he's tried to impress her in some way can result in his giving off of a tell that would otherwise be kept under wraps.

 

2) Singles her out for the purpose of trying to outplay her. Kind of a “get off my lawn” thing. Never believes she has a hand. Always raises her. I try not to use this action against him when I'm in a hand with him, because I think he will play me differently.

 

3) Ignores her. Unfortunately for me at least, this is the majority use case these days. Guys no longer give a shit about women being at a table like they used to. All I can do when I see this happen is assume the player has a clue. And it also means I have to worry about what he thinks of my play because he's not preoccupying himself with such things.

 

Anyway, let us know how you do. Sounds like you're finding some success already.

TheClubber
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February 7, 2015 - 2:23 pm
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I was playing at Venetian tournament this week with a nice “little old lady” from Altanta on my left. I have recently made a conscious effort to be more social at the table, so I casually asked her, “So how long have you been playing poker?” It turns out her son is a pro and taught her to play. He's living in Canada as an online grinder. She was rcommending I open an account on Bovada since she thought the fields there were soft. Had to quickly readjust my assumptions! 

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