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Greetings all,
I happened upon an article about Day Trading. The following is a list general rules for day trading posted by someone named Turtle Trader. His / her approach to trading is similar to an online MTT grinder. It is amazing how many of these rules apply to poker. I have highlighted the one I think pertain to poker and added a few comments. Thought it was worth sharing.
General Rules
- Understand why you are in the markets (play poker). Gambling thrill or to make money?
- Use an approach and don't deviate from it.
- Use money management at all times. (Nuff said)
- Establish a trading plan before the markets open. (Establish a tournament game plan before it starts)
- Have a detailed plan for each trade.
- Have entry and exit points and understand risk reward rations.
- Learn to accept many small losses.
- Trade markets from the short side.
- Standing aside from a position is a position. (I love this one..Not playing a hand IS playing a hand. Much of the time, the right decision is to fold preflop.)
- Have a strong relationship with your broker.
- Speculation is a business. Develop a business plan. (Training / playing schedule and plan)
- Survive to hang around for the big moves. (Most of the profit in online MTTs comes from finishing in the top 3. Everything else is just maintaining your bankroll to give you more chances to go deep.)
- Don't blame the market (other players or luck) for your losses. You are the sole reason for losses. (Ouch!!)
- Write out a trading plan for all potential situations you may face.
- Do not look at quotes during the day. (Don't look at your tournament standing unless it is near a bubble.)
- Do not concentrate on break-even levels when you are losing. (i.e. exploit the Bubble)
- Break-even levels have no bearing on the future success of a position.
- Don't liquidate a winner to keep a loser.
- Develop and maintain an exit plan. Follow this plan with rigid discipline.
- Greed kills.
- Never add to a losing position. A losing position means you are wrong. (If you are constantly reloading your bankroll, you are a losing player and need to work on your game.)
- Big movements take time to develop. Stay patient.
- Nothing new ever occurs in the markets.
- Don't try to predetermine your profits.
- The key to wealth in trading is simplicity. Avoid techniques you don't understand. (Know your game and its limitations. Mike Caro also calls this FPS – Fancy Play Syndrome.)
- Don't be overly curious about the rationale behind a move.
- Trade your money not the markets.
- Bulls and bears make money, pigs get slaughtered.
TPE Management
April 6, 2010
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good post, some pretty interesting correlations between the two.
Interesting. I have been thinking about this and I dare say Poker has the advantage over day trading that math stays true and there are many less external variables to manage. For example, if you find a spot where you are ahead of a range and make a play, as long as your range assessment is correct you will make money in the long run. In Day trading you are dependant on the market's sentiments or perception of the value of a company which are usually incorrect, and even if you assess the value of a company (or its perceived value) correctly, you might end up losing money simply because of a PR issue, a fraudulent employee (although this on is ture to poker too……read UB or full tilt), or several otehr variable out of your control. So I'm staying with Poker, thank you 
funny just lately i attended some webinars about trading cause a friend of mine wanted to convince me to invest some. and what i’ve heard also reminded me a lot on poker. but in the end I came to the conclusion poker is much safer 🙂
Great post
One point not mentioned is that the Turtle Trader was a “Technical” trader and not a “Fundamental” trader. For those that don't know, that means;
Technical – is basing your trading decisions solely on price action viewed on charts, which can include all sorts of indicators.
Fundamental – basing your trading decisions on news to be announced, or predicting what you think might be the news, reviewing balance sheets, CPI, Interest rates etc etc
So as a technical trader, you will fall into the “random probability game” category and thus the similar strategies mentioned in the initial post will also pertain to poker.
I studied day trading (Technical) for over a year. I lost money so gave it up and turned to online poker. I'm making more at poker than I ever did at day trading , and will never go back to it. You have more control over poker
Hmmm – “Establish a Tournament Plan”
Anyone have examples of one?
PC
PokerCrucible said:
Hmmm – “Establish a Tournament Plan”
Anyone have examples of one?
PC
PLEASE NOTE THAT ALL BELOW IS A GUIDELINE AND I WOULD RECOMMEND TO BE FLEXIBLE AND ADJUST CONSIDERABLY BASED ON YOUR TABLE DYNAMICS, STACK SIZE AND OPPONENTS, that said I do think it's good to have an outline, thoguh some people just do it naturally or just think its useless as it depends on too many things and you just need to see how it goes at your table:
I see this as something like this:
- Consider the field (is it a top torunament with a lot of regs or a low buyin full with fish tourney?)
- Consider the structure: is is a turbo, deepstack, bounty, rebuy, DoN, Sitngo, Satellite?
- Consider your goal : Playing to win only, to Final Table? to cash? (no a good option in MTTs obv)
Based on all these:
- Plan your early stages strategy: example:
- First 2 levels 3x open, after that 2.5x, then 2.2x or min raise
- play tight, avoid SB to BB limped confrontations
- avoid wide blinds stealing etc…
- open up opening range from LP, resteal etc….
Again, I understand this is all very dynamic, but having an idea of what you want to do and what to expect will allow you to better adjust once in the tourney, and hopefully avoid mistakes you made in the past in similar situations
October 6, 2010
Offline
another similarity between poker and day trading is the sick grind stations you can have.
isaacjames said:
PokerCrucible said:
Hmmm – “Establish a Tournament Plan”
Anyone have examples of one?
PC
PLEASE NOTE THAT ALL BELOW IS A GUIDELINE AND I WOULD RECOMMEND TO BE FLEXIBLE AND ADJUST CONSIDERABLY BASED ON YOUR TABLE DYNAMICS, STACK SIZE AND OPPONENTS, that said I do think it's good to have an outline, thoguh some people just do it naturally or just think its useless as it depends on too many things and you just need to see how it goes at your table:
I see this as something like this:
- Consider the field (is it a top torunament with a lot of regs or a low buyin full with fish tourney?)
- Consider the structure: is is a turbo, deepstack, bounty, rebuy, DoN, Sitngo, Satellite?
- Consider your goal : Playing to win only, to Final Table? to cash? (no a good option in MTTs obv)
Based on all these:
- Plan your early stages strategy: example:
- First 2 levels 3x open, after that 2.5x, then 2.2x or min raise
- play tight, avoid SB to BB limped confrontations
- avoid wide blinds stealing etc…
- Plan your mis stages (post antes) strategy:
- open up opening range from LP, resteal etc….
- Plan your bubble strategy
- Plan your FT strategy
Again, I understand this is all very dynamic, but having an idea of what you want to do and what to expect will allow you to better adjust once in the tourney, and hopefully avoid mistakes you made in the past in similar situations
Thanks a bunch. This is kind of what I was looking for.
PC
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