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November 19, 2012
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Hey all
Hope this doesn't sound too bbv, but I am really struggelling.
I love poker, its my main hobby, I am surrounded by successful players, a few making a living off it, shot taking main events, etc.
Been playing what I can online, never had a huge roll, at one stage at its highest was $350 or so.
All ive done since then I listen to TPE and Thinking Poker podcasts over and over, watch as many training vids as I can, and practice practice practice. Since then I busted my entire roll, redeposited and busted again, whilst watching friends who were at the same stage as me build their roll to over $1000. Night after night of going through my hand histories just to count the number of coolers i copped.
I feel like I am a better player than the average at the games im playing (3.5 45 mans mostly, with some 2.50 180 man, and micro turbo tournys on stars), have had some deep runs to the last few tables of 3000+ fields, but never big enough profits to make a big jump on my graph.
I am almost positive i have been on the wrong side of variance for a while, but with no way of validating that, and in the end, no money in my account, I am starting to wonder what might be wrong with me. I think that's the hardest part, not knowing if its me or just running bad. Cant afford coaching, cant really find any guids/topics on 2+2, or here, that don't teach me anything revolutionary.
I've decided to use this opportunity to take a couple of weeks off online poker, get back to the gym, freshen my mind, and try and figure out where im going wrong, what I can change, and how I can make it happen.
So aside from my sob story, I was wondering if anyone had any advice for me for when I redeposit. Game types, maybe softer fields on other sites, articles, threads, etc.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Thankes TPE
TPE Pro
June 14, 2012
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As far as mental approach goes…
It's easier said than done, but when you start grinding again, you need to definitely play hand by hand and tournament by tournament, and not let the prospect of running bad enter your mind no matter how brutal a day/week/month/year you're having. I think a lot of us are guilty of punting stacks or playing suboptimally (either playing angry or playing weak tight) because we've been running bad. Just keep the mindset that the outcome of each hand, once the chips are in, is its own random event, independent of past events. There actually is no such thing as running bad. Just press onward and play in the moment. It's the only way to mentally conquer the inevitable brutality of variance.
Sorry, that came out a little wordy and stream-of-consciousness, but that's how I try to approach it.
As far as guides/topics on 2+2 or elsewhere, there's not a lot of groundbreaking stuff out there anymore to be honest. It's hard to come across something that's going to give you some sort of lightbulb moment of enlightenment. Try to learn and grow as a player bit by bit, rather than seeking out explosive moments of clarity. Games are tough nowadays and it takes diligence and hard work to create an edge for yourself. It has to be done little by little.
Another thing that can be helpful is finding other players on Skype, and joining a chat group where you discuss hands and strategy. As long as it doesn't distract you while you're playing, and as long as you're open to criticism, this can be very helpful in plugging leaks.
It sounds like you have a pretty positive mentality. You don't sound whiny or “BBV” to me. Good luck!
November 19, 2012
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Thanks for the reply Rivermen,
Yeah I totally agree with the philosophy you talk about, and don't worry about being wordy stream of consiousnessy haha, I live with a bhuddist for a year, wordy stream of conciousnessy discussions were a nightly occourance. I know exaclty what you mean, I guess I find it hard not to be results orientated when I am imposing my expectations of making short term (nightly, weekly) profits on myself all the time. I'm back with the parents for a while now, which means I'm under considerably less financial stress. So my plan is to stop playing for a few weeks, save up enough money to purchase HM2, SNGwiz, and deposit $300 (that should be ok for $3.50 45mans and $2.50 180mans??), and focus on gym, meditation, and other areas of my life. It was getting to the stage where I would be grinding my teeth about cooler sessions for days afterwards.
I definitely think the skype chat is something that would help me greatly, will checkout 2+2 for any already running, if any members here are interested let me know, i normally play between 7pm-1am AEST, which is +10GMT, don't know what that equates to everywhere else.
March 25, 2013
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Hey NBG,
I read your post with interest, and can relate to pretty much every thing you said.
I am working on 2 parts of my game seperately. One is going pretty well, the other – not quite as good.
I'll start by saying that my TPE membership is by far the best poker related investment I have ever made. The vids, articles and podcasts are fantastic, and I can see consistent improvement since I joined.
The part that's not going quite so well is tilt. The thing is, I never even knew i was tilting. When I lose I dont yell & scream, I dont throw things, I dont tell bad beat stories – so how could I possibly be on tilt?
Here's the thing that came to me in a blinding flash..
As my game improves, so does my confidence. I go into each game believing that my skill edge will allow me to win. Now, when I do win I want the rush to continue, so I cram in as many games as I can – often moving up stakes. Then when I lose (especially if I get my money in ahead) I feel that my skill edge will allow me to recoup my loss(es). So I keep playing to get back to my “high point” – often moving up stakes.
Seeing a pattern here?
I've approached a coach who charges $50 p/h, and am going to alloccate enough money for 10 hours coaching to start with. I understand that it's not easy to put $500 away for coaching, but my plan was to put money aside over time until I had the $500, rather than redepositing. If you've got $300 to play with, maybe allocate half of that for a couple of hours coaching to see if you get any benefit from it. Or otherwise, take a few weeks extra off before redepositing to accumulate a bigger roll.
I've also taken a recommendation from Marc Alioto to grind DoNs as a low varience way of building a bankroll.
Lastly, if you're from Melbourne I'd really encourage you to make contact with some of the other Aussies here on TPE. Bennymacca is an admin on this forum, and Cousteer also lives in Melbourne and is pretty active on the forum. I recently joined their TPE Pokerstars home game which is held on a Tuesday night. We have a Skype call while the game is on, and it's a lot of fun – as well as being really beneficial for your game. They are a great bunch of guys – talk shit to each other, tell each other how bad they play, but also get into some teriffic poker discussion.
Sorry to turn this post into a 10 page novel, but I hope it helps to know that there are plenty of others who have gone through (and are going through) exactly what you are.
Keep a look out for the “TPE Down Under” thread in the “Off Topic” banner. Pretty sure the next series starts soon.
Keep you chin up, and good luck at the tables.
November 19, 2012
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Hey thank you so much for the reply, and please, the lengthier the better, I really love the supportive nature of this forum compared to others (we all know where I am referring too haha).
I agree with you about TPE, worth every cent.
I know what you mean, a good player who grinds micro sng's and tournies succesfully reccomended I just try 12 tabling so I don't notice the bad beats, so when I did start to cop some coolers, I would flip out and open like 10 more tables while I was pretending I wasn't tilting, probably the worst idea in the world right??
.. Hindsight is 20/20 eh haha.
Let me know how the coaching goes, I haven't looked into it much, but its definitely something I will consider.
DONs, I can't quite remember, but I think I looked and they don't run them on stars anymore, or at least in the same format as what Marc used to play. What sites are you playing? But yes low variance sounds bloody good to me.
That sounds really good, I actually just added benny macca on skype eearlier tonight. I'll look into the home game, assuming theres a thread about it somewhere in here, just depends on time, and when I get home from uni.
Thanks again for the reply, really do appreciate everyones help and kind words.
June 1, 2012
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Have you ever thought about playing regular speed MTTs? These have a lot less variance and allow you to have room for creative postflop play, squeezes, light 3 betting, cold 4 betting etc. The variance in Turbo speed MTTs and hyper turbos is just brutual. When i fist started playing poker i won one of these things for $1700 and i had apsolutely no clue what i was doing this was long time back. And besides, downswings are always followed by heaters and yours will come soon enough. You will expirence times where no matter how badly you play you just can't lose and vise versa.
March 9, 2013
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I was on a downswing at the start of the year and it can get to you getting the money in good and still losing its part of the game.
My tips are:
Take few days away from poker relax with friends go to gym etc
Reduce number of tables playing ( i was playing 8/9 then reduced down to 4 max) allows you to focus more on the table itself.
Play smaller MTT's with less people (I like Partypoker even if software is not great)
Cut out rebuys, speed, turbos etc
I also have a spreadsheet in which i record information such as no of players, finshing position and detailed information on bust out hand, i have found this very useful as i can see that i still get deep in lots of spots but tend to lose that Key hand we all no the type of hand get it in with AK and lose to AQ.
If possible try other sites than Pokerstars maybe full tilt or the smaller euro sites the standard of play can be very poor and the smaller number of entries can help reduce variance (ave entries 600 compared to thousands at Pokerstars)
Watch TPE videos
If you still getting deep in MTT's and losing those key spots things will change and sucess will come, i not played the micros on stars for a long time but they have thousands of entries so variance is always going to be much higher.
May 30, 2012
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I think what you have written ALL mtt grinders go through. There are a lot of poker players that don't like or can't handle mtt's for this reason. I think the #1 thing you can do is play within your roll. I am a bankroll nit when it comes to this. I also play as a hobby, witdrawing a few times off Lock, but I mainly play for the challenge. I like Rivermen's advice in the previous post in the fact we have to separate ourselves with the results of a hand. I still struggle with this, but in reality some of the best mtt players in the world only cash like 11-12% of the time. Even BigDog went 0-27 2 summers ago in Vegas in live events and he is one of the best players in the world.
Now we will never play perfect. This is why we talk poker, subscribe to TPE, etc. One thing I tell myself if I have punted my stack, made a mistake, is..”I didn't lose the hand, I learned what I did wrong” and try not to repeat it the next time I find myself in a similar situation.
In saying all of this, when I play, I try to play while rested. If I am mentally tired I might as well be flushing my session down the toilet. You have to put the bad beats behind you the best you can or it will only effect you in the next hand. It is harder for me to do this when tired. I then recomend playing as much as you can in position, know your's and villain's stack size, have a plan going in to every hand, and try to make the BEST decision evertime. After this, all you can do is get it in good and eventually you will find yourself on the right side of variance. The great things about mtt's is the feeling you get when shipping a tourney. Now this doesn't happen very often…I can't tell you the amount of times just this month I have min cashed, final table bubbled due to losing races/flips, but the more times we get to the front door, eventually we will knock it down!!!
I hope that this response helped and best of luck at the tables!!
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