Ok so for whatever reason, I feel really good about my game right now. I know I am making a ton of mistakes and I need to work on my C game, but I feel like I am improving my A game every day.
I am switching gears now whereas I wasn't doing this a few months ago. I see things coming in slow mo before they happen and I am taking more calculated risks without concern for results.
I decided to come into the Mental Game section to talk about how I feel like I am on fire and noticed that all the mental game posts are about negative mental states. I think it's good to talk about positive mental states as well.
When I get crunk, I will jump up to talk shit to a blank wall in an empty room. I be like “aaaarrrgggghh! get off me! *pounds chest* lay that trash down!” whenever I successfully 4bet light . I'm staying in an extended stay studio with thin walls so my neighbors probably think I am nuts.
Whenever I feel like I am in the zone, I'm gonna come here and type it out instead so the old lady next door wont send the cops over and have me arrested for domestic violence or 5150'ed.
Feel free to put yours in here too. Keep the fire going.
October 6, 2010
haha thats awesome.
i have to say i do a similar but probably quieter (lol) thing when i am in the zone.
usually its at 1am on my friday night grind, and everyone else in the house is in bed, and i have some awesome sennheiser wireless headphones and i just put on some upbeat tunes and dance by myself in my chair haha. its usually at that moment that i am playing my A game and i just seem to know the right time to 5bet ship on someone.
good thread loxxii
January 15, 2013
It's funny that you are posting this, since, I'm finding that watching vids such as Mark's have encouraged me to be much more “in the zone” attitude wise whether results are good or not. Instead of getting tilted from bad beats, the only think that “tilts” me now is when i know I did not play a hand optimally, which only makes me want to play better in the future. There's a lot of times now late in tourney when I have felt supremely confident (not cocky, there's a difference imo) even if I suffer a bad beat, and I think it has improved my late game results. Before, when I made a final table I felt good, but now it is like “not going to mean much if I don't ship it….”.
I'm not screaming in an empty room, or anything (the room is never empty much with a wife and child at any rate), but sometimes my “inner voice” is screaming when I win those key pots late stages not in situations where I ran pure, but because it did not get to showdown and i took chips when maybe other (except those in the TPE nation) would not, or I forced my opponent to make a bad call simply because he couldn't figure out my line.
And I think that the ability to have a consistent positive mental attitude in poker is underrated….
Thanks for another stellar post as always, loxxii!
Man I love that feeling. I just havent had it the past couple of sessions and being reminded of what it feels like is so clutch. It’s so crucial to be well rested and prepared for when an opportunity presents it self you jump all over it. I love that quote, “luck is when opportunity meets preparation.”
Yesterday was brick city for me. A bunch of min cashes and sick spots everywhere I turned led to less than optimal play in the evening. Still I had several hands where people paid me off and chatted about how confusing my line was and well played. That’s what grounds me. Knowing that although I am going to make a mistake here and there I am still making it tough on my opponents and when I run pure I will be more than fine.
All the recent series whether it’s Marc’s, Chris Moon and Daryl Jace or Andrew Brokos have me so fired up again. I love being in the zone and seeing everything unfold before it happens. Knowing that yea, I just heroed called your shove with middle pair but I was right, got you to fold to a bluff raise on the river, or got away with a 4ball with rags, does that make me the real donk? Being in the zone is such a calm and fires me up so much that even though I may be running bad, I am still going to be there when we are playing for the money so you better be ready to make a tough decision or think twice before you decide to get tricky.
Bring it on! (Awesome Loxxii)
April 16, 2013
Fantastic idea for a thread. I couldn't agree more. One thing I want to focus on is associating me making a good fold with feeling good and associate that with my A-game. This is difficult as without it going to showdown, self doubt can creep up after a few folds and all of a sudden I'm calling everyone down with ace high because a random draw missed but they were just value betting 2nd pair against my weak line.
I don't want to have to 5bet shove to make me feel like I'm playing my A-game. As ausome as that is, making an important fold with top pair when my opponent has no bluffs in his range or when a nit raises in a situation where they alwayyyyyss have the nuts and I get away from it without too much damage, is just as key if not more important.
I know I would make a ton more money in poker if I could make my fold button twice the size as my check and call buttons. If only pokerstars would let me change it on my screen. Or, if folding in certain spots made me feel as good as triple barreling some nit off top pair.
October 6, 2010
michae1di11on said:
I don't want to have to 5bet shove to make me feel like I'm playing my A-game.
i guess what i meant by this is i just feel like all of my reads are spot on – if you are not in the zone, and not paying attention enough, then i would rarely do this sort of thing.
making correct reads is probably a better way of saying what i said above haha
April 16, 2013
Yea I completely get that, I just used it as an example as a “fancy play”. I was just saying that to show how important I find folding to be as part of my A-game, no criticism of the posts above inteneded at all. 5bet shove could also be replaced with bluffing in any spot really or even calling someone down with a really bad hand. Basically just mean I want simple folds to be associated in my head with the same good feelings I get when I do one of the more “fancy plays” if you know what I mean.
October 6, 2010
it probably just comes down to clear thinking in general, in all parts of your game.
April 16, 2013
Yea for sure. Another association I make with being “in the zone” is when I'm really nailing bet sizes to be called by opponents range. Obviously this is what I try to do all the time but when I'm starting to get annoyed, even subconciously, I'm defintely tempted to bet huge when the bet isn't realistically going to get called.
September 16, 2013
I hear ya. What I consider to be my first good result in a live event, after dozens of failed Main Event's, was at the WPT Legends at the Bike last month, and my initial thought after looking at my Day 1 table (Jason Koon, Matt Waxman, Jeremy Ausmus, Joe Serok, and 2 other good thinking players) was this is the table of death and I have no shot! I know, its not the greatest mentality of coarse, but I was a bit intimidated for the first hour or so. After not only making it through Day 1, but getting to Day 3 and cashing in 54/715 I wanted to run full speed and scream at the top of my lungs that I had just defeated the universe or something! lol. But really I know what you mean, and we should all get out of our shell from time to time and celebrate what we work hard to imrove upon! #goodkarma
TPE Pro
August 25, 2012
Alright, I'm gonna step in and be a killjoy, I'm afraid. OP, please don't hate me. I think 'the fire' is a very dangerous thing, and we should strive to put it out while at the table.
Let me explain. I definitely agree that it's crucial to be very motivated to play poker, to get yourself pumped up for big events psychologically, and to be alert and awake at the table. However, there are some severe drawbacks that come with feeling too much like you're 'In The Zone'.
Firstly, when you're truly 'In The Zone', you shouldn't be in a place where you're mentally acknowledging to yourself how 'In The Zone' you are right now. Every moment you spend thinking about how well you're playing is a moment you're not focusing on what's actually going on. Every moment you spend congratulating yourself for a successful bluff is a moment you're not spending thinking about what you would have done if you'd gotten raised, or if a different river card had come.
Secondly, 'seeing things coming in slo-mo' would indicate that you're focusing on one potential eventuality of a hand above others. If you're anticipating villain folding to your bluff ahead of time and you just KNOW it's going to work, how are you going to react if it doesn't? How are you going to plan the next street if you're too focused on this one?
Thirdly, things like 'talking shit to a blank wall' are only going to raise your heart rate. Raising your heart rate is good in some ways, but there is a state of physical and psychological arousal in which your ability to think straight is actually going to be impaired. If you're actually physically reacting to things, you're not 'In The Zone' – you're just really excited. There is a difference – the zone is that place just below the point where you're actually physically moving around. Raising your heart rate also puts you into a more emotional state, which everyone knows is not a good state to be in at the table.
Finally, and most importantly, putting so much effort and focus into each action you take at the table to the point where it affects your physical state is indicative of one thing – ATTACHMENT. Attachment is a silent killer at the poker table – the more you're attached to something, the more you want it, or even if you tell yourself you 'need' it, the more you're surrendering control of your situation, because guess what? Poker doesn't give a shit what you want. The moment you feel like you're playing better than you ever have and you're on the final table bubble of the biggest tournament of your life, the poker gods might decide to have you lose your whole stack with AA preflop and bust in 10th. How bad is that going to feel if you spent the last hour leading up to the hand thinking about how much you were bossing the table? And how much less would you care if it was a play money tournament? You're attached to the money and the success, and that's what makes things harder.
Ultimately, the mental state we should be striving for at the table is one where we are alert and attentive enough to be aware of every detail of a hand, but simultaneously emotionally disengaged to the point where it makes zero difference to us whether we win or lose. A player much better than myself once said of his approach to the mental game, “no sighs, no yays”. You don't sigh when you lose a hand, and you don't cheer when you win – you just move on, and accept that you made a decision to which the eventual consequences were out of your control. The more 'fire' you have, the more control you feel like you have, the more you're setting yourself up for poker to rip the rug out from under you. Confidence is vitally important in poker, but in order to achieve the ideal mental state at the table, it's crucial to supplement it by being calm, relaxed and emotionally detached. Next time you feel 'the fire', rein it in.
No problem bro. I could never hate on you for expressing your thoughts. I will both acknowledge that you made some valid points and continue to get excited when things go well. Tonight was on of those nights actually. I hung in there with 2 or 3 bigs, refused to punt, and it worked out for me. Feels great.
TPE Pro
August 25, 2012
Absolutely, I'm not saying you shouldn't feel good when things go well, of course not. I would just be careful about your actual physical reactions, because your body and mind are closely linked. Every fistpump could just as easily be a fist slammed on the desk, and that's a dangerous road.
In a way, I actually like slamming the desk too and dangerous roads can be fun in moderation. 🙂
Acting out gives the same dopamine hit whether it's used to increase the high or counter the low.
I get your point though and I think we're using 2 different definition of “In The Zone”. I like being excited. Im cool with just calling it that for clarity.
I think these are just 2 different schools of thought. Like Ivey vs. Hellmuth for example. Both are good, but most agree that the stoic one is better.
I agree that it's ideal to be unmoved by the outcome of poker hands. I do it because it adds to my enjoyment of the game. If something goes well, I might say “let's go” more because I am happy (and fistpumping makes me happier) and less because I think I am in complete control and that the situation will always work out as I plan in the future. Same goes for saying “come on man!” and slamming a desk in the opposite scenario.
It is illogical, maybe even stupid. It certainly wont help me become an ideal poker player. In fact, if that was my goal, I wouldn't do these things (or allow myself to be distracted for even a second by music or NFL games when my time is much better served watching the hands I'm not in). But personally, acting like an idiot in the privacy of my own home adds to my Happiness EV.
If I am honest with myself, every dollar I have ever won from poker came from playing against weaker players and not because I am the man. These physical reactions are just a small sample of my many leaks which are keeping me from becoming the best I can possibly be. I'll plug them in time or maybe not. For now, I am content with being blissfully delusional.
Killingbird said:
great discussion in this thread. Love the idea that our physical reactions are tied to our emotions. What is the science about how if you force yourself to smile you actually become happier?
Here's one that Pie Farmer posted about awhile back. The gist of it is that acting out as if you're the man can make you feel like the man.
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