April 26, 2013
Yeah, this is an issue that still costs me a lot of money. I think my game is pretty solid, thanks to great TPE content and HH discussions. I've also worked on my mental game with Jared's books and some other input from pros.
Nevertheless, I make some embarassing play at times, especially in situations where I have a great stack that gives me a very nice shot at an FT run with a good finish and then facing a confrontation with one of the chip leaders. If in addition I note this chip leader is very aggro and/or a decent reg that knows when to put some pressure on, I too often step into the trap of not believing he could actually hold the good hand he's representing.
I would love to see some general advice on how to avoid stepping into this trap, while still managing not do be bullied too much and therefore loosing equity because we fold to much against the few stacks that can still hurt us.
Here is a (as I said embarassing) hand history of a $26 KO tournament on FullTilt. We were 23 left to ITM, 18 places paid, 1st got ~$900, 18th ~$35. We are 2nd in chips, sitting with the chip leader who has the highest VIP status (black card) and was very active over the last few hands. This is 7handed, villain has opened 27/17 over 67 hands, AF is 3.5 (actually not that aggro when I look at it now).
Full Tilt Poker Game #34297240738: $3,000 Guarantee (KO) (267632402), – 800/1600 Ante 200 –
Seat 3: surepli (10,004)
Seat 4: boozer57 (24,376)
Seat 5: Shimbunshi (48,685) in CO
Seat 6: Sunzi (31,050)
Seat 7: hazelasty (11,158)
Seat 8: Hero (47,871) in BB
Seat 9: MoreEV (17,798)
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [7 7]
MoreEV folds
surepli folds
boozer57 folds
Shimbunshi raises to 3,200
Sunzi has 15 seconds left to act
Sunzi folds
hazelasty folds
Hero raises to 7,200
Shimbunshi calls 4,000
*** FLOP *** [2 2 3] (Total Pot: 16,600, 2 Players)
Hero bets 7,200
Shimbunshi raises to 14,400
Hero raises to 40,471, and is all in
Shimbunshi
calls 26,071
Hero shows [7h 7d]
Shimbunshi shows [Td Ts]
*** TURN *** [2h 2c 3s] [4h] (Total Pot: 97,542, 2 Players, 1 All-In)
*** RIVER *** [2h 2c 3s 4h] [5c] (Total Pot: 97,542, 2 Players, 1 All-In)
Hero shows two pair, Sevens and Twos
Shimbunshi shows two pair, Tens and Twos
Shimbunshi wins the pot (97,542) with two pair, Tens and Twos
Because I saw he is a good reg I reraised preflop as I didn't want to play a difficult small-midpair against him post. I think this is the first mistake, bloating the pot instead of playing according to the flop and his action.
I dunno if the cbet is good, but the 3bet AI to his raise is definitly stupid. He is representing an over-pair and I guess he shouldn't often bluff here. His sizing was low on a super dry flop, this is what made me donk-shove, any ideas on how to protect yourself from doing so?
Another point I tend to be doing wrong (sometimes, only rarely but still too often) is acting pretty quickly in these situations, probably because I think it looks like I am more sure about my play and playing slowly (taking some time to think before clicking) would look weak. Any suggestions about this mindset?
Thanks for any constructive input. Yes, I know I played like a nice donk. Similar situations have happened to me before quite a few times now, when I had a great chiplead or was one of the top-stacks and then leveling myself into self-destruction. This needs to stop and I will try hard to get there.
TPE Pro
August 25, 2012
I think you're being incredibly results-oriented. I don't think your play on the flop there is the problem. It's pretty thin, and it's relatively unlikely that the villain has much of a bluff range, but ultimately if he is a good reg then he's more likely to be bluffing in that spot than a total fish. I think you're beating yourself up way too much for the way the hand turned out.
I think by far the bigger problem is that you 3bet 77 preflop just because you were scared of playing against this villain, and that's what led you into this tricky spot. If you were playing against any other villain, you would have noticed that there are multiple short stacks at the table, and this 3bet is neither a value bet nor a bluff, because you evidently aren't certain enough about the villain's calling/4betting ranges to make comfortable assumptions postflop either. Defending the big blind is obviously the right play in this spot, and you know that from your answer, but you weren't able to make the right play at the time.
What you're doing with your post is assuming you made a strategy mistake, but in reality that strategy mistake was caused by a far bigger problem – confidence. You didn't have enough confidence in your ability to play postflop against someone who is a better player than you, so you made an unnecessary 3bet, and then stacked off postflop because you didn't have confidence in your read.
Ultimately, I think the way to approach this problem is simple. If you're worried about playing against a specific player because you have cause to believe that player is better than you, it's obvious – play fewer pots against them. If you have a hand that you really can't fold, then play smaller pots against them. But before you do any of that, focus on overcoming your own confidence problems, and making sure that your in-game decisions reflect that.
April 26, 2013
Thanks a lot ginger.
No, no, this was not ment to be a strategy post! I think I made myself unclear but I just included the hand to illustrate a recent example of my general “mental problem” (I posted this in mental game section for a reason ; ). I knew something was wrong in my decision-making at some points of the game, but was very unsure of what the cause is.
Yeah, I think you are spot on with your assumption of me missing confidence. The main reason behind this just became clear to me: I suffered a lot of varience lately and instead of putting in some learning/handreview time I put in more volume. This resulted in me loosing confidence in my general play, especially in situations near a FT or deepstack, when suddenly I became aware of the importance of my decision-making, directly affecting my chance to cash for a larger amount.
The strategy for now is: Reviewing some of the great TPE content and playing lesser tables but focusing more as well as trying to keep an unbiased thinking (to avoid stupid plays like the 77 3bet).
This is perhaps my biggest leak.Sen said:
Yeah, this is an issue that still costs me a lot of money. I think my game is pretty solid, thanks to great TPE content and HH discussions. I've also worked on my mental game with Jared's books and some other input from pros.
Nevertheless, I make some embarassing play at times, especially in situations where I have a great stack that gives me a very nice shot at an FT run with a good finish and then facing a confrontation with one of the chip leaders. If in addition I note this chip leader is very aggro and/or a decent reg that knows when to put some pressure on, I too often step into the trap of not believing he could actually hold the good hand he's representing.
This might be my biggest leak. I think it's a form of tilt and something I've been consciously working on.
April 26, 2013
Rivermen: That's interesting. Can you share what you did to try fix this leak?
Something related I realized is the fact, when sitting deep-stacked and slowly approaching the bigger money (the FT), I tend to get affected by over-aggressive play of some players, even if it's not a turbo structure and a strategy not trying to milk every minimal/marginal spot would be optimal. What sometimes happens is: if I don't remind myself, that these hyper-aggro players are taken too many unneccessary risks too often, so I try to imtate their style, because I feel like I need a double up soon, even though my 30 – 45 BB stack is still super-alive.
This is also somehow related to beeing (withou noticing) totally out if the zone and getting into “tunnel-vision” instead.
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