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Frustration and How to Handle It?!?!-Help!!
terbet11
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March 21, 2011 - 5:00 pm
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Hey TPE Family,

This question is for Jamie as well as the whole community.  How do you deal with the constant swings?  I know that this is open ended of course, so I will give you an example. 

I spend most of time concentrating on the $5 45 mans to build my roll.  Through about 900 $5 sngs, I have about a 35% roi.  I know this is somewhat of a small sample, but I know that the 45mans are the best way to build my br and the proof is in the pudding.  However, with the 45ers comes variance.  I think that there is a pretty simple system to beating the sngs, but as we all know even though we are getting our hands in good most of the time doesn't mean they hold.

It always seems inevitable that all of my run good sessions will be followed by the down swing, and it seems as if they hit all at once.  I have spent my time on the mindset of poker, reading the poker mindset, the elements of poker, I read blogs, articles, and listened to the latest TPE pod cast.  I hit the reset button, I try to go to the happy place, but the suck outs keep coming sometimes.  I know that after reading the elements of poker, down swings, or bad runs are really in our head and all we can deal with is the present hand, but that is sometimes tough to think about.

I don't know how everyone else feels, but there are times (in the last few days) where I don't think I will win again and if effects my play, I feel I won't win the flip so don't even bother calling with those pocket 10s, or JJs when they should be snap calls sometimes.  My 70/30s don't hold and the runner runner combos find me constantly.  I try to enjoy the good runs where your 60/40s hold and you do win flips.  I try to keep the negative thoughts out, but man is it tough sometimes. 

So after venting a little, what do you guys to put yourself in the right frame of mind playing in your sessions.  How do you handle your downswings?  One thing I try not to do is not talk about the beats, because we all go through them, and my poker buddie(s) don't want to hear about it.  Plus all the stories do is bring up bad feelings.  Jaimie mentioned in the latest podcast that he recomends a pre game period to get you ready for your session.  I love this idea, so what would you recomend this be..listen to music, run out of a tunnel with steam with cheering in the back ground, what?  I will love to incorporate this in to my game so please give some suggestions.

One last question in regards to goals.  I think they are good to have, but would you guys recomend not having a monetary goal.  I like the fact I have a goal, but then I also find myself worrying about not attaining it or losing a portion on a down swing and having to grind back up.  I find that when I don't care about the outcome I am a little more free about my play, but when things get tough and I worry about the bottom line I start to freak and it effects my play. 

I appreciate everyone listening through my extened question/rant so any help on how you approach the frustrations of poker would be great.  I think the hardest thing for me in this game is the fact I put so much time and energy in to it and yet sometimes it is not enough.  I love the game.  I play for the passion of the game.  In fact I have never withdrawn from my account.  I hope to one day when my roll gets large enough to do so.  Right now though I love the competition, the metagame, and the idea that I can be learning something everyday.  So when you lose set over set, or your AK doesn't hold to AJ, or if a fish limp calls your 15bb jam with 9/5o and you lose I tend to go a little batty. 

I look forward to hearing from everyones point of view and have any tips/suggestions.  Thanks again and best of luck at the tables.

checkraizer1
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March 21, 2011 - 9:59 pm
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You are not alone.  I went on a heater won the first 3 45 mans i played and then went on a hundred dollar down swing.  Granted a hundred is not alot but when your roll gets close to 700 and now your back under 600 it hurts.  Honestly if your doing the right things it will turn around.  To be honest my fix is to take a couple days off and clear my head.  Alot of people dont like doing this but I feel its the only way for me to drop the bad beat bagage and go back at it with a clear and focused mind.  Maybe change the games your playing.  Maybe running an 18 man session or just playing some larger field mtt's might get you over your rut.  Dont despair though.  Glory is just a river away my friend.

bennymacca
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March 21, 2011 - 10:38 pm
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one thing you should keep in mind is that downswings WILL happen and there is really nothing you can do about it. there is NOTHING you can do about a downswing (unless of course your downswing is coupled by less than optimal play which is often is)

 

Up until sunday night i was in the middle of a nearly $600 downswing which is pretty significant when my ABI is $10 and i rarely play higher than the $26 tourneys (this is after having an ROI of about 80% over 500 MTTs. downswing has included about the last 100 tourneys). i had a run of nearly 40 tourneys where i min cashed once. just once. in those 40 tourneys i finished within 10 spots of the cash at least 8 times. 

 

first i realised that i was playing really well but just getting unlucky. but i also realised that i was too aggro on the bubble against the big stacks – i.e i would flip off my 19-25bb stack with 88 against a 50bb stack and bubble the tourney instead of cruising into the cash and picking better spots with my 15bb stack instead. of course i was playing to win but i was getting a bit too crazy with the reshoves, especially on the bubble. 

 

so i tighened up a bit, and on sunday i binked a $4 300 runner tourney for $280 or whatever. so im still not out of my downswing but getting there. 

 

sorry for the ramble, but i guess what i am trying to say is that if you are playing well, just take comfort in the fact that you KNOW you can beat the game, you have been doing it for nearly 1000 games. so just grind it out and soon enough you will be back on the winners list. but dont forget to plug those leaks along the way and keep working hard. 

 

good luck. 

P-aire 146
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March 22, 2011 - 7:38 pm
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You're going to have pressure in any tourney you play, both online and live.  Just a matter of how you handle it.  If you're somewhat prepared for the situation, you'll then it better.

One thing I do at work (got it from playing baseball in college) is to think of things that may occur and anticipate how to handle them.  Same thing at the poker table.  Just imagine hands and what your going to do.  This way, if you get that big pocket pair, you'll already know or have a good idea of what you want to do.  It's running scenirios in your head.  Think of all kinds of situations you could be in.  I believe it relieves some of the stress I go through in different tourneys because I've mentally played out a bunch of the situations.  I do realize there will be a few really tough spots that you haven't thought of and you'll be able to handle them once you come across them. 

As far as frustration, I continue to beat myself up for never cashing in a WSOP circuit event (all in AC, either Harrahs or Caesars).  Over the years, I've played in a total of close to 20 ring events and still chasing my first cash.  That's kinda sad, because I've had deep runs in at least 10 of them where I was within 20 spots or less from the money and went busto.  I did have a big cash in a mega-satelight w/ Ttwist (he won) I took 4th for 3k, but I don't count this.  So, my frustration has been mounting for years.  But, you can't let it get to you.  I know I can play and have other cashes in live poker to prove it.  For whatever reason, the circuit events kick my ass.  But, I will get a cash soon (this May @ Chester) and a ring soon after (I hope).  Positives thoughts.  Otherwise, why play. 

Same thing with online play

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praetor
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March 22, 2011 - 7:49 pm
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Your not alone my friend, poker as you well know is the only game where horrible play is rewarded.  I use to go on tilt on the drop of my dime. It is human nature to remember only the negative, just think of customer service, how many good experiences can you remember compared to the bad?  As a result, it only takes one suckout to start the fire of failure and we keep adding fuel to it and expect luck to turn it around.  Down swings are a part of poker but how long they last is up to us.  This is the philosophy that I adopted. If I experience the dark side of variance, I will walk away from the game for a few minutes and try to think of all the good plays I had made.  Recently, I adopted advice from Big Dog’s “Killer Instinct”, article and it has helped a lot. I use to check the lobby all the time, now I never check it, if I cash, or make a final table, it is a surprise; if I don’t, I move on to the next tournament.  I also discovered a that multi-tabling helps as well, I use to concentrate on one or two games at a time and when a beat happened it affected me. Now, I have been multi-tabling and when I get knocked out another table takes its place and I soon forget. I adopted this from watching the pro’s videos; they suffer a lot of beats and just move on to the next game. For me, taking my mind off the beat is the best medicine; I have to keep my mind going, if I allow myself to go idle-I dwell on it. A couple of other articles to check out are “Taking out the Trash” and “On Tilt”

"Your either in Sheen's Korner or your with the trolls."

P-aire 146
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March 22, 2011 - 8:52 pm
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Funny you bring up BigDog's article.  I started not looking at the lobby a month or two ago, after the one vid where BigDog and Ttwist got on the hand review of someone looking in the lobby “LOTS” of times during a tourney.  It's helped me concentrate on making deep runs.  Who cares where I am in a tourney the first hour or two.  You know you're going to be there over 5 hours to be in the money, why look until the 5 or 6 hour mark.  With that said, lets all win a tourney or two this month………………

Dare2Dream
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March 24, 2011 - 8:00 am
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Guys, soory I havent replied to this thread as yet but been away on a 2 week holiday. Will get to this in the next 48hrs:)

Dare2Dream
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March 27, 2011 - 11:07 pm
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Firstly, great post!!!

In my teachings, I try and create specific exercises and routines that help players to stay emotionally balanced and inspired to play their best every session. The Pre Game is a great way to prepare for your upcoming session, getting you mentally and emotionally set to play your best. This may consist of you listening to a song that coincides with the state that you feel you play your best when experiencing these states. For example, being calm and relaxed is a state you feel is present when you are playing your best, then I wouldnt recommend you listen to a Metallica Album!!

The Pre Game would also consist of you re visiting some of your best results in the past, both result and process focused.

As far as Goals and keeping emotional balance in regards to the swings of the game, I have created a Post Game Routine, or what I call a PDR. The PDR has the same impact on your emotional well being as CPR has on your physical. The PDR revives you emotionally after a beating, or constant beatings which the game oftens throws at us.

The PDR consists of you making sure you are focused on processes that will make you a better poker player, and puts results in the back of your mind. If processes are what helps you play great, and playing great helps your results, then why is it that we start at the last stage?? If we start at Step 1 and focus completely on those things, then Step 2 and 3 will look after themselves.

So the PDR helps you to acknowledge all the processes that help you become the best you can be, both on and off the felt. Here is a simple version of the PDR for the TPE members-

At the end of each session/day, I want you to make a list of 10 things you were proud of today. Those 10 things can consist of specific hands you played, the quality of your preperation, control over your mindset/emotions through out the day or any other aspect of you striving to be your best.

I then want you to write down 3 things that you would like to improve tomorrow. For most people, this is the things that they SCREWED up today, but I prefer for you to focus on what you would like to differently tomorrow, or what I call reframing. So write down 3 things you would like to differently tomorrow.

Once you have written your 2 lists, I want you to read these lists 2 times, then also re read the lists once, first thing the next morning. This process will help give you a chance to stay emotionally stable through out these downswings, helping limit the damage and at the same time, when things are going well, help you to become more aware of the smaller processes that help you play great.

When writing Goals, make sure they are focused heavily on processes that you have control over. Im happy for players to have a monetry goal, but that has to be attached to a number of processes that will help their monetry goal become reality. These processes then need to become more important than the end result, your happiness and self worth has to come from these behaviours than a result you cant control.

Hope this helps:)

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