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(1 votes) 
January 22, 2016
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Last night i played a live 5k guarantee. Midway in the tourn i folded 53 pre flop not once by twice . First time i i would have had wheel and other a boat. I also folded 44 pre to a mid size raise which also would have turned into a boat . Ended up busting with AJs in a multiway pot and i deserve it . Two questions A. is it wise to keep track of the action after you folded B. is 53 a decent hand to call or raise with? Regardless of your opinion i will never ever fold 5 3 again
February 20, 2015
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Well, I’m glad my opinion will finally receive the respect it deserves!
I don’t think about my hand after I’ve folded beyond trying to guess what the remaining players have (because blockers). If I tilt easily I really don’t want to think about my hand because it’s never going to result in my playing better.
Your 44 hand might have been worth a call if you and your opponent were both deep enough. But it has nothing to do with the fact that it would have won. It was because it could have won, and you would have gotten paid off for it. See the difference?
53 is not worth opening unless you’re on the button and you can see the blinds getting ready to fold. In other words, hardly ever. You could call out of the big blind to a min-raise and go for two pair/straights/flushes, but don’t go crazy. You’re usually going to be out of position.
January 22, 2016
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I agree and disagree Joel I agree with your logic to forget the hand once it’s mucked to avoid unneeded stress but i disagree with logic of “would have won” Yes my 44 hand turned into a boat if i played it and i would have (not could have ) got payed off if i played it . Maybe i am missing something ?
August 13, 2015
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I agree with most of what Joel said, even the 44 part.
Lets talk about each of your points 1 at a time.
1) Playing with 5-3
– As joel said. But I will add another rule to that, if calling with 5-3 costs more than 5% of your stack, even if its min raise you should not call it. e.g. blinds are 50/100 -> HJ raised to 250 and you have 2000 (20 BB). Here calling is bad option. Either you should reraise (depending on your table image and how tight/loose SB-BB-HJ are) or just fold. But this 5% is not hard rule, treat it as a rough guideline which you can use.
2) Playing with 44
– you should call any standard raise with 44 most of the times. Here 44 is just a representative of all low pairs (77-88 and below). But you should be prepared to fold those on flop (or turn) if you did not hit your set and avoid calling till the river (for set mining)
3) “Regardless of your opinion i will never ever fold 5 3 again”
– This is probably one of the worst conclusions you can make from this event. I have done similar mistakes in the past only to get burned more.
Tournament play is very different from cash games. I have no cash game experience myself, but one thing I know for sure is “you can be lot more patient and wait for good card in cash games” compared to tournaments where blind go up really fast. Also short stack play is super important. Corollary of that is, “you have to be patient to look for spots” to shove your short stack in tournaments. Because live game offers much smaller sample size, analyzing your play becomes difficult. Even good fold may sound bad one. If we take your 44 example, lets say you have to put 10-15% of your stack just to see the flop for that hand, then 44 fold is good play in the long run.
Hope this helps.
My background – I have been playing live poker tournaments in local casinos over past 2 years and breaking even so far. But I have upgraded myself from 50$ tourneys to 100-200$ in that time.
TPE Pro
August 25, 2012
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Okay, first things first, if you never ever fold 5-3 again then you are lighting such a massive amount of money on fire that you might as well not play. Seriously, that’s the worst response you could possibly have to this situation.
Leaving that aside, it’s important to focus on the long run, not just one instance – obviously 5-3 is a weaker hand than most others preflop, so it’s going to make a strong hand on the flop less often than other hands. The only reason to never fold 5-3 is if you believe that either 5-3 is better than other hands like 8-7 or K-Q that you might sometimes fold (which is absurd), or that all hands are equal preflop (which is also absurd).
It doesn’t matter what “would have happened”, because the only reason you know what would have happened is because you saw how the deck was configured in that instance, since you were playing live. If you were online (where the RNG determines the shuffle) or if you had not seen a flop in those hands, you would never have had anything to complain about – you would surely have recognised that the likelihood of the flop containing the cards you specifically needed was very low.
There’s no ‘would have’ in poker, at least not when it comes to the deck. The deck gives you the same odds each time.
TPE Pro
August 25, 2012
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Also, why are “bust” or “be tortured by hands I mucked” your only options? Is it impossible for you to muck a hand without being tortured by it? If so, you might have some issues beyond poker that are affecting you.
August 20, 2015
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You should simply not be thinking about bad hands that you fold that ‘would have’ become whatever.
At the time you made the decision, you made the best decision possible. That’s all you can hope to do in poker.
This weekend I had AA beaten by, believe it or not, 45. He rivered a 4 to make trips against me. Was this you? 🙂
In this instance, I was 82% favourite against his 18% there. So think of it this way – let’s say we ran this situation 1000 times, I would win around 820 times. He would win about 180 times.
I have lost AA against KT many times. AA is even better against KT than it is against 45, at about 85/15.
So because it has lost, should I always fold it?
The answer to this and your question comes down to sample size, I think. ANYTHING can happen in the short run to throw your thinking and thus your assumptions about the game wildly off. But you can’t argue the numbers – the very same numbers that pro players rely on – of how things will turn out in the long run.
You have a choice here:
A) either never fold 45 and help keep poker profitable for the rest of us
or
B) learn why 45 sometimes wins but more often than not loses and thus literally lose less money
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