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June 12, 2013
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Dear fellow TPE members,
My first non-introduce yourself post!
I am after suggestions about how the structure at my local casino should influence how I play. I have a reasonable idea, but would love to hear other members or TPE pros' suggestions.
Buy-in is 40 euros, plus 5 euros for the casino. This gives you 2000 in chips.
A 'dealers bonus' is available right at the start: 5 euros for an extra 1000 chips. (Pretty much a must!)
You can rebuy until the end of the 4th level as long as you have starting stack – 2000 – or lower. 20 euros buys you 2000 chips, 40 euros 4000 chips.
The blinds start off at 20-40, and increase every fifteen minutes. They increase pretty quickly, (I cannot remember how quickly) but I think they are at 200-400 after the rebuy period. Antes kick in not so long after this…
The number of players range from about 15 to a maximum of 30, with the most common number of players being about 20-22. The standard of play is nothing special (at all), with players being a wide mix from overly tight to (very) overly loose and aggressive.
Top 3 are in the money. I have played 7 times and won or chopped twice (once with a fairly lucky triple up just outside the bubble, and once because my AKo held up at a fairly crucial period – just after the rebuy period, and before the final table). Certainly, luck is a factor but my question is about how can I best play to take advantage of the structure. I don't think my opponents there think about it too much, and with a TPE-edge I'm sure I could be in the final 3 more times.
Advice and suggestions very welcome. I'll report about how I get on on future visits.
If there is any information I haven't given that might be important please let me know.
June 12, 2013
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Will ask this again, because I have heard great things (every episode of the Thinking Poker podcast!) about the excellent community on the forums…
I normally play freezeouts, so I'd love advice on the rebuy period.
Most other players in this tournament either don't rebuy, rebuy once or twice, with the occasional person who rebuys often. Last two times I have played I have rebuyed twice. The first of these two times, there were 21 players in the tournament and I chopped for 650 euros (from a buy in of 45+5+40+40), the second time the winner (not me, nowhere near me!) only received about 490 euros because there were 16 players. I felt it was a mistake to play recklessly – like I did – and rebuy twice with a relatively small 1st place prize. I think I should be happier to rebuy when there are more players. What do you think?
In that last visit, I played (after a while) to have a small enough stack to rebuy just before the end of the rebuy period and for this cards/good spots were pretty much irrelevant. I think this is probably a mistake too…
Any rebuy period advice is much appreciated. I have seen a low stakes video from Big Dog where rebuys all the while, but that is a large online tournament and not a small live tourney.
Thanks in advance, I am hopeful and somewhat confidene that this tournament can cover my TPE membership cost! (A nice thought!)
July 7, 2012
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Is there an add-on at the break? if so how much and how many chips? Makes a big difference to your strategy.
Given the size of the field, small, i'd not be looking to 'gamble it up' too much during the rebuy period. Think I would stick to a farely solid game and only look to rebuy if I lose a big pot. But, I would buy-in for the max that I could, to maximise the chip gain in a double-up situation.
June 12, 2013
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No add-ons in this tourney.
The max buy-in at the start is 2000 + 4000 (the starting stack, plus the max you can rebuy when you have starting stack or less). Cost 45+40 euros. Almost everyone starts with this 2000 + 1000 (the starting stack + the 'dealers bonus) for 45 + 5 euros, so this is pretty much enough for doubling up and what I normally do too. I used to think that th dealers bonus was pretty much a must (5 euros for 1000 chips), but you raise an interesting point: perhaps the biggest possible starting stack is a good idea…
April 2, 2013
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If youre not going to rebuy why play it? For one thing not taking the rebuy on a rebuy is a tell.
Already you are saying I am going to play tight, only premiums to try and build my stack.
Thats fine if youre playing a bunch of unconcious players but a good player will use this.
I like to have the biggest stack allowable so I can increase my size in opportune times.
That doesnt mean you can play ATC just cause you have that option.
June 12, 2013
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Johnny Boy, thanks for the reply. Just for clarification, I do rebuy (twice in my last two visits) the dilemma above was about what to do at the very start. In practice everyone there either opts for the 'dealer bonus' or does nothing: no one rebuys straight away (buying the dealer bonus chips means you cannot rebuy straightaway because your stack is 1000 more than the starting stack). The dealer bonus is cost effective (per chip) but leaves you with less than is possible, but no one else has what is possible initially so doubling up is limited to the what others have…
June 12, 2013
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One last bump for any advice… I am going to play this tournament tonight (in 12 hours). Thanks.
June 12, 2013
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I want to share my experience of the tournament from last night, and hopefully receive comments. Criticism is particularly welcome.
The tournament was slightly different from previous occasions: an ad-on was available after the fourth level, and you could rebuy when you had less than 3000 chips.
15 minute levels, approximately one orbit per level 8 people on my table, 26 in the tournament.
Rebuy period: I bought the dealer's bonus to take my chipstack up to 3000, bet the blind on one hand just to reduce my stac below 3000, and rebought. Stack just under 7000… over the rebuy period I worked this up to about 9000 (and this probably could have been more). The play was wild… 4th pair winning, someone all-in with Jack-4 preflop against KK and QQ and winning with a straight. Bluffs, hero calls… and non-hero calls! I did not really adjust to this: and preserved my stack rather than getting involved. I did not have any good cards, but won a couple of pots without showdown to get up to that 9000. At the end of the rebuy period I added on to get an extra 4000. My stack (now about 1300) was probably 3rd on that table after this.
After the rebuy period: I was quickly out after flopping a straight when I was in the big blind. I may have always been going out on this hand, but think I made a mistake on the turn.
About 5 people call the big blind, no one raises, when it comes to me on the BB with 10 7 off. I check. Big blind is 400, so about 2600 in the pot.
The flop comes 8-6-9 with one 
and two
.
I lead out for 1400, and get three callers. Pot now 8200.
The turn comes (I think) K.
I lead out 4000, and get one caller.
The river is a low club, perhaps 2 or 3.
I check leading the villain to make comments about my spade not coming. (This player was one of the looser players in the rebuy period, and had me covered. My only memory of him from this period was an awful bluff.) He moves all-in, I call thinking he had a pair or a busted flush draw too. I knew he had no idea I had a straight.
He turns over his cards… a low flush, I think 7 high. I walk to the bar…
He was calling the flop with an open-ended straight, and a backdoor flush draw. On the turn, this became a flush draw. I thought that my mistake after the hand was not betting more on the turn (or even not going all-in on the turn) but I think he would have called anyway. (Some evidence for this is that he was out not that long after – perhaps 30 minutes – despite winning that pot making him chip leader.) Looking at what I have written above, he did not have the odds to call (pokercruncher has me a 77% favourite after the turn) but the opponents in this tourney are not thinking about that. I think next time I just need to bet more in general… the structure is such that waiting for better spots is not always ideal.
I am still contempleting this, but any comments, advice and criticism is very welcome. It is the first hand I have ever shared online.
July 7, 2012
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in a limped pot there is a farely good chance that someone has hit a piece of this flop, like a pair plus draw. So I would contemplate check raising the flop and jamming any none spade turn. As played, I think you have to make a committing bet on the turn or as you say shove.
June 12, 2013
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Turbulence, many thanks for your replies. In future at this tournament, I'll make sure people are paying more for their draws (it is likely that they will pay more). First place was over 1000 euros on Monday (more than normal because of the add-ons mainly)… worth trying again in the near future.
June 12, 2013
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Here to share some good news: I chopped this tournament (with the other 'last man standing') last night for 800 euros. One lucky hand A5>AK on the final table. Also noteworthy is that I didn't play a hand during the rebuy period, perhaps not the best tactics in the world but rubbish cards and few opportunities to try it on. Reluctant to go wild during the rebuy period because the field is small and additional rebuys would seriously eat into the ROI.
I can't quantiffy it but TPE must have helped at least a little (Andrew Brokos WCOOP vidoes, and bigdogpck5s second Sunday Million video). A bit of luck too! (A5>AK with about 11bb on the FT)
March 3, 2013
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Congrats! You always need a bit of luck.
Sounds like my local casino tournament and I play super super tight in the Rebuy period, let people spew off Vs my premium hands and keep adding to the prize pool. I always rebuy straight away and then Add-on regardless.
After the RB period I open up a little but many players continue to play lots of post like during the RB period so I tend to stay tight and use my tight image to iso limpers and take pots in position.
I also abuse the FT and money bubbles really heavily. You'll soon establish which players are willing to play back at you and you can avoid them. Most players are too excited at the fact they may make the FT. On the cash bubble you can establish a commanding chip lead by being aggressive. I can't remember which video it is (an old one) where one of the pro's talks about winning the tournament before the cash bubble bursts due to you bullying the table. This is especially true when the paid volume is small like in your tournament.
I probably cash my local tourbey 25% of the time but variance will dictate sometimes you don't make it.
Good luck for the future….sounds like a profitable one to stick with!
June 12, 2013
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Thanks for the comment, FatHarryPotter, and like Andrew Brokos said on the Thinking Poker podcast, great name. Your comment is exactly right about this tournament. I have played about 8 times and chopped it 3 times, and that is probably a fair reflection of my chances of cashing. I know what to do – as you do too – but things need to go the right way in a key moment sometimes. Depending on the field size buy-in (with rebuy and add-on) to a chopped first place ranges from about 3 to 1 to 7 or 8 to 1, so it is positive EV. Just need to keep improving, and TPE will – I'm sure – help with this.
Feel free to use this thread to post about your experiences in your local casino tournament, I'll do the same too. It might be from a different country (from the podcast I know you live in 'Merrie Old England' – I have played in Manchester a few times) but the tournament seems very similar. The 'villians' are as you describe over here too.
June 12, 2013
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I also like the phrase 'winning the tournament before the cash bubble bursts': in my experience at thiis tournament, this has been correct every time. If you – or anyone else – can remember which video (or videos) discuss this please post. Very important idea!
June 12, 2013
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I played this again last night (rebuy initially, and add on at end of Level 4). I managed to work my stack up to 17,000 by the end of the rebuy period (blinds here are about 200/400), and was helped by knowing (from playing the previous week) who the fishy guys were. My main mistake was loosening up a little too early: the fishy guys were still in and were raising with (what was likely) very little. I did not call with my speculative hands… losing chips.
I lost two key pots when ahead when the money went in. KK<AJ on a Jack high flop (another two people were all-in too so this would have been very nice – ace on the river! I did win the side pot though). And on the final table my AQ<ATs… all in preflop, flush came by the turn. If AQ held up I think I had a good chance of cashing. Very next hand – when I have about 3-4bbs (I had 'villain' covered in the previous hand) I have AT off on the Button. All-in… Small blind has Kings. Kings held up, and I was out in 7th.
Overall, pretty pleased with how I played. Next time I need to play tight for longer, or like FatHarryPotter says, stay tight after the rebuy period for a while. I had a somewhat tight image and that helped with later 'semi-stealing'.
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