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April 30, 2017
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Hey,
I have been playing poker occassionally off and on now for the last 12 years. I would now like to take the next step and devote more of my time to poker. Through studying the game and playing more often I hope to reduce my work hours or even go full time with poker.
At the minute I have been using my disposable income from my full time job to play online and live. Only getting to play live once a week. I would mostly play MTT’s. Online buy in would normally be €5-€10 with live buy in between €65-€110.
Can anybody give me any advice on the best way to build a bankroll? Would it be through MTT’s or are cash games quicker and more profitable? Any advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks
SkyRktAces
February 9, 2014
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I would consider mixing in Non turbo sitngoes. DONS, 5050s, 6 +9 man reg speeds. I would still be playing mtts, i would just be very picky and would make it a point to master the art of game selection. For the first year of my mtt career i played 0 turbos and would usually stick to bigger stack/smaller field type MTTs.
Live cash is still a good way to build your bankroll. Low stake live tournaments usually have horrible structures so playing low stakes cash will help you learn Deeper stack play and will increase roll based on the # of fish.
The goal should still be to master tournaments as I believe it the most profitable form of poker. It just isnt a great idea to be playing 100% mtts if we are looking to build a roll. hope this helps.
gl my man
AZN
TPE Management
April 6, 2010
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One thing that might be worth considering would be to focus on smaller field MTTs and perhaps also on softer sites. I’m not familiar with non-US sites but I assume sites like Party and 888 have smaller fields and softer players, so both would be decent options. Just one more thing to consider.
TPE Pro
TPE Management
July 20, 2010
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Find the stakes you feel comfortable at and play below it. Once you establish the stakes you turn profit in, continue with as much volume as possible.
February 19, 2017
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I also have a question when building bankroll. I see people say start off small and find your comfort level, that’s all well and good . I must be a freak of nature. I consider myself a “good” player not great,lots to learn. However I notice playing those smaller limit MTT s actually hurts my game. You tend to play down to the competition level there where you raise 5x pre and get 9 callers, I find that I read a lot on advanced play and believe it or not I make it further in larger buy in Mtts versus micro or low stakes, Perfect example, on betonline I like playing th6 max 1000 guarantee for 5.50 ive yet to final table or even cash because in my opinion the level of play there is terrible. I mean seriously what have they lost ? 5 or 10 bucks? Yet sunday I satellite my way into the 50k guarantee , and instantly see the level of play is a lot better,people play right, aggressive,fold big hands and such and I manage to final table it in 9th for a nice pay out . In short building a bankroll to me is a tough thing to do in micro and low stakes
February 9, 2014
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100% you want to be playing with the fish. Short term results are meaningless as its all about that 1000 mtt sample. I promise you that your roi in a 5$ game is much higher than a 50$. After you play 1000 games at each stake you will be on my side. Many players say that they prefer to play with better competition and they are basically lying to themselves. WE WANT FISH! Thats how we make money. As long as you arent tilting or playing down to the competition you will crush.
WE WANT THE FISH!
Azn
April 30, 2017
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Thanks guys. All good points to take on board. I find I always do well in mid stakes sit n goes online. So I will keep my online play to those and increase the volume. Will still play MTT’s online but keep it to a minimum (maybe once or twice a month). Those MTT’s will be ones with lesser turnouts as to try to go deep. I will play my games at Grosvenor Casino online. If anyone plays there I would appreciate any recommendations on which MTT’s to play.
When playing live I will try to mix it up with low stake cash games (probably €0.50-€1) and some mid MTT’s. I live in Northern Ireland where casinos are illegal so I have to travel 2hrs to Dublin in Republic of Ireland and due to work this means I only get there once a week. I play in Fitzwilliam Casino and Card Room if anyone is there and wants to say hi!
The only doubt I have about playing cash games and not having a bankroll or major cash available to me is the amount of money to sit down at the table with. Usually I judge it at 100x the big blind. Is this correct? Some guys may be sitting down with loads more than me which puts me at a disadvantage straightaway! Is there a different strategy I should take when playing live cash as opposed to MTT’s?
February 6, 2017
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Having a short stack (shorter than 100 BB, though) is actually an advantage. Watch Andrew Brokos’s Getting off on the Right Foot series. He describes how some pros used to buy in for minimum amounts at cash games online in the past repeatedly so that the sites had to change rules.
I know that’s not really answering your questions, but I would highly recommend that series if you haven’t watched it yet. Good luck building that bankroll!
February 5, 2015
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marc said
“Short term results are meaningless as its all about that 1000 mtt sample.”
Are you sure that even 1000 games is a large enough sample to establish true win rate at a stake? I’d have gone with closer to 5000.
marc said:
“Many players say that they prefer to play with better competition and they are basically lying to themselves. WE WANT FISH!”
I know very long term this is undoubtedly correct thinking…but shorter term my variance goes haywire when I’m playing vs a fish-rich field in an MTT or SNG. At least playing vs. regs you can understand their logic, reason out their plays, and be confident in the ranges. It is, necessarily, impossible to reason out the play of a player who has not reasoned out his own play himself in the first place.
Great to see you in the forums…I love listening to you fwiw on the podcasts. Carlos too…to be able, finally, to interact with you guys is awesome!
February 5, 2015
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Btw SkyRkt, I would just throw in a word of caution there that you need to manage your expectations. I know you have many years’ experience there, and for all I know you really are good enough to make poker your profession in 2017. But I also had the same ambition a few years ago, and I was unable to realize my dream. And in any case, my dream quickly turned in to a nightmare, as I realized that as my JOB, I was required to be profitable. It dawned on me that I was not going to sail off in to the sunset playing cards the rest of my days in carefree, stress free, glorious, golden harmony. Instead, I was going to have a JOB. And frankly, as a job, poker can be bloody monotonous, boring and repetitive. I was not usually going to find job satisfaction at the end of a hard day. More often than not, I would be putting in a full day’s hard, stressful graft, only to lose money. Factor in the stress of an uncertain paycheck, and I decided I’d stick with keeping poker fun, and as a hobby, which I can enjoy once more.
February 9, 2014
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“Are you sure that even 1000 games is a large enough sample to establish true win rate at a stake? I’d have gone with closer to 5000.”
Bigger field Mtts you would be correct. US sites, 1000 is usually a good measure.
“I know very long term this is undoubtedly correct thinking…but shorter term my variance goes haywire when I’m playing vs a fish-rich field in an MTT or SNG. At least playing vs. regs you can understand their logic, reason out their plays, and be confident in the ranges. It is, necessarily, impossible to reason out the play of a player who has not reasoned out his own play himself in the first place.”
Not sure if you use a HUD or not, but exploiting the fish is essential and is a great source to accumulate chips early in tournaments. I will always take a fish vs reg. I agree ranges are tougher to sort out, but most fish will make massive mistakes so its all about adjusting to that type of fish. Using the PT4 makes this so much easier.
Great points my man
AZN
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