July 24, 2018
At 600-1200/1200, I raise the button with As5d to 2500, with 22000 behind. The BB calls. He has me covered at least 4x. We are in the mid to late stages of the tournament; 18 left 7 get paid.
Flop is A97r. Villain check calls 2K
Turn is Ad, bringing back door diamonds. Villain check calls 4K
River is Jd (completes flush). Villain jams for 16k. Should I call?
PIO thinks the flop is a mix, but does bet my hand about 2/3 of the time. When I gave it 1/3 and 2/3 pot sized bets, it mixed those as well, but preferred my sizing. It has Villain 18/47/35 for R/C/F. It raises AT+, 97,77 for value. For reasons I don’t understand, it check calls 99 and raises 77. I guess 99 blocks my 9x, and that is more important than blocking 7x? It bluffs almost all of its straight draws at some frequency, but does not bluff JTs with BDFD. It’s most common bluff raise is 85. It does bluff T8 as a mix, but mostly check calls.
The Ace of diamonds turn is a clear bet for my hand. When I gave it bigger sizing, it mixed 4K, and 8K. I also let it jam, but it did that less than 1% of the time. Villain defends 11/64/25 to my raise. Once again it is check raising Ax, some straight draws and a lot of diamond flush draws that somehow called the flop.
The river jam is where we leave PIO territory, since it jams less than 1% of its hands. I don’t think it is instructive to see that we call when it does jam but FWIW it calls down to TT. How should we think about whether to call the jam?
One metric we can use is Minimum Defense Frequency. In theory we need to call at least 1/2 of our hands on the river. Is A5o in our top half of hands? PIO thinks I get here with about 150 combos, and 68 of them are trips or better. So, for chip ev, this is probably a call. What about blockers? Of course an Ace is a good blocker to Villains Full houses. The 5d is a minor blocker to Villains flushes. We don’t block 8s, which Villain can be turning into a bluff (86). We don’t block Ts which can be value betting straights.
In game, I did call. The tipping point for me was that some player types like to bluff odd flushes, so, even though I have more hands that are better than trips on this river, I think the bluffing frequency is higher than for an off suit Jack. I think the math on MDF and where my hand is in my distribution make this a Cev call, but Tev fold.
I gave myself a 43% range of openers, down to J5s. I gave Villain 53%, and assumed he’d 3 bet TT+, AQs, AKo.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
3for3 said
When I gave it 1/3 and 2/3 pot sized bets, it mixed those as well, but preferred my sizing.
You may know this, but just to clarify: an action taken at a higher frequency isn’t exactly a preference. In any mixed strategy, all lines (that are part of the mix) have the same equilibrium EV. If one is strictly better than another, it would have to be for exploitive reasons.
Speaking of which, there’s a fair chance that open shoving pre-flop is the best play. Yours is a hand with good equity AIPF and poor post-flop playability.
V raising 99 vs 77 probably has to do with your barreling strategy. Of the two, 7x has less showdown value and should be more inclined to barrel turn. Thus, blocking 77 makes it less likely you bet turn, while blocking 99 makes it less likely you check turn.
MDF is a calling frequency that will make V indifferent to bluffing with hands that have 0% chance of winning at showdown. After check-calling flop and turn, he shouldn’t have many of those, and even though there are a few, there may not be enough to incentivize you to call with pure bluff-catchers (which this may or may not be). Remember the A-5 game from POP: Ivan gets profitable bluffs with his 5s, and Opal calls to make him indifferent to bluffing with hands that have a bit of showdown value (6s). She isn’t calling MDF, and I doubt you should be here, either.
That said, given that Villain shouldn’t take this line at equilibrium, you’re in exploitive territory.
July 24, 2018
I tend to base my bet size entirely on flop texture and range advantage (or at least try to) and only have one bet size. This is a small bet size situation. Much easier for me to try to balance 2 ranges than 3.
For similar reasons, I don’t have an open shove range above 20BB. Also, there is the ‘enjoyment’ factor of playing a tournament. This particular Villain was probably the chip leader; he had a huge stack, and if anything would be calling off lighter than he should, although in these fields, usually the contrary is true.
I get the 99/77 dichotomy, but I doubt many players would split those two.
The MDF argument is a good one. I know I need to reread the relevant POP section. I’d be surprised if Villain doesn’t have 15 combos of 86 that are ‘5s’.
I do feel A5 is a pure bluff catcher. I doubt Villain is jamming KJ, or even has it; My kicker doesn’t play, so I am beating no Ax, though I do chop with some of them.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
Picking a single bet size for a given flop situation is a good idea, I just wanted to make that broader point about what a mixed strategy means.
You had almost exactly 20bb to start this hand, right? The small raise may be a good exploit against opponents who won’t jam on you as often as they should, but against better players small raising all your Ax in this spot makes their resteals very profitable.
Admittedly, “pure bluffcatcher” is not a widely used term of art with a well-defined meaning, but when I use it I mean that your hand has no relevant blockers AND beats/chops with none of V’s value range. Either of those factors should give you a +EV call at equilibrium. Without them, you’re usually indifferent.
Here I think it’s likely that even without a pure bluffcatcher, the V may simply underbluff this spot so severely that calling is a bad idea anyway. Even if he gets here with 15 combos of 86, he probably doesn’t open shove them all that often.
Most Users Ever Online: 2780
Currently Online:
14 Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
bennymacca: 2616
Foucault: 2067
folding_aces_pre_yo: 1133
praetor: 1033
theginger45: 924
P-aire 146: 832
Turbulence: 768
The Riceman: 731
duggs: 591
florianm1: 588
Newest Members:
adrianvaida2525
Anteeater
Laggro
Philbro
acekingsuited
Lber16
Forum Stats:
Groups: 4
Forums: 24
Topics: 12705
Posts: 75003
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1063
Members: 12005
Moderators: 2
Admins: 5
Administrators: RonFezBuddy, Killingbird, Tournament Poker Edge Staff, ttwist, Carlos
Moderators: sitelock, sitelock_1