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February 5, 2015
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Hey! I have an easily solvable question.
An example situation:
Hero is on CO with 30 bb stack. BTN has 12bb stack. SB has 8bb stack. BB has 4 bb stack.
When selecting the appropriate Nash shove range for Hero, do we use the effective stack size, ie 12bb, then select the 12bb CO Nash range with which to shove…
Or do we average out the stacks behind…and choose, in this instance…the 8bb CO Nash range with which to shove?
This has always puzzled me, not sure why I never asked before.
My guess is that we use the average.
July 24, 2018
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I doubt average is correct. To see this, assume there are 2 players, one has 20Bb , the other has 2. You don’t want to use 11. Obviously the 2 guy should be calling 100%. I suspect the answer to your question would be weighted closer to 10 or 10.5 than 8.
February 5, 2015
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Ahh…3for3 you have blown my lame theory out of the water with your example. Ofc you must be right. Still think it’s a legit question though which I am surprised I haven’t seen asked before anywhere. I’d be interested in the definitive answer, though I expect you are close.
Enough people use the effective stack size I expect by default, and I am sure this must be way out…then again, maybe it was just me using it which is why I kept losing!
February 8, 2017
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I don’t have a hard and fast way of figuring this out, I tend to shove the same range I would against the deepest stack with a few extra high card hands added. I’ll shove hands like K3s or Q7o that are a little too loose if all stacks were the same. King and Queen highs will outperform lower suited connectors vs wide short stack calling ranges. In most situations, I’d shove at most 3-4% extra hands.
February 8, 2017
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DuckinDaDeck said
I don’t have a hard and fast way of figuring this out…
On further thought, saying things like this is either a sign of lazy thinking or not having put enough work in on spots like this. Seeing as these multi short-stack situations can be quite common in the later stages of tournaments, I don’t think I can ignore working on them. I’ll do some work in ICMizer soon and let you know what I come up with.
February 5, 2015
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hey DDD,
I tend to use charts ingame. Obv we can’t use HRC or ICMizer in-game. I guess I can take a chart and run some sims in hrc and see how they correlate.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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Shorter stacks behind you mean you will get called more often (because they aren’t risking as much to call as charts assume). Typically means you need to shove a bit tighter. Best to build intuition for this with a tool like HRC or ICM-izer, so that you can make better in-game adjustments.
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