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When do you start getting coached?
navinbits
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January 14, 2016 - 2:45 pm
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Hi TPE-ers! I have this question regarding coaching (mainly for tournaments). At what skill level would you think there is a good value in getting 1-1 coaching? I want to seriously consider getting coached, but don’t want to pay $100+ per hour to discuss hand histories where the coach says “you didn’t have the right odds to call. Please fix this” or any other totally amateurish stuff that I must be figuring out by myself and fixing them. Do you guys consider coaching when you start consistently getting close to cashing in tournaments or barely cashing, with an intention of going deeper? 

RiskyBull
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January 15, 2016 - 6:06 am
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I just finished watching Matt “theginger45” Hunts zero to hero series, where he takes a TPE member (Dave) through a 10 part coaching series. …..nt-part-1/

Really enjoyed this one and should give you an idea of what to expect if you were to go ahead and get coaching

DannyN13

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January 16, 2016 - 12:51 am
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This is a difficult question to answer. I don’t believe that everyone learns the same nor do I believe there is a specific skill level one would optimally benefit from 1-1 coaching without knowing you. If you spend tons of hours learning on your own, how do you know what you are studying, schedule you are playing, concepts and leaks you need to work on without hindsight and others opinions? It’s very difficult to dissect your own game. Fortunately for myself, I have built a big enough network of friends/ acquaintances that I can study with, send hands to etc. This is not the case for everyone. Many people come to me and say how they just want another opinion and some direction simply because they don’t have a poker network. So, it really depends on the individual case. My suggestion to you at the moment, is that if you are at the point you are questioning when you should get it, you probably feel as if you are intrigued by it, and trying it wouldn’t hurt just for direction sake and some leaks. A lot of guys come to me on a downswing and just want to gain confidence and go back to play a ton of volume and return down the road. Others from scratch, others in the middle. If you feel passionately about the game at the moment it would probably be optimal timing for you to receive coaching.

The Riceman
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Hitting The Circuit
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January 16, 2016 - 3:29 pm
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Well just my two cents over here, not as a coach myself (I’d have to pay the student…joke), but as someone who has had coaching. First off, as DannyN13 relates, there is no specific time that will work for everyone. I understand your concerns that you do not wish to look too noob-ish by asking basic questions. First off, as my sng coach told me, (which I had to infer was some kind of back-handed insult), he looked forward to our sessions as he sometimes found it hard working with some of the best sng players out there to find smaller and smaller edges for them…ie with me his job was easier as I had huge leaks! Poker has a way of deluding one into believing they are a good player when this may be way off the mark. Even a huge fish, unless he is just wasted drunk and killing time playing, will be thinking he is making the correct plays. After all, if he didn’t think that, then he’d play his hands differently. The more you learn of this game the more you realise there is to know. For me, therein lies its beauty. 

To be concerned with looking foolish should 100%be a non-concern. First off because no coach will make you feel like that anyway, but more importantly because I guarantee that whatever level you are at, even at a high level, a good coach will find holes in your game which make you feel foolish in any case! The concern is obsolete from the start, because its a guarantee that you will be face-palming at some points in any case. 

As for when to start, well I would say that so long as you have the funds, the moment you have a passion for the game is as good a time as any. If you don’t have a passion for it then its probably not a good time, and probably never will be, although I expect that’s obvious enough. If you asked me what worked for me, it ran like this: playing all the time I could afford, whilst studying books (Harrington on Hold’em I would still recommend for new-ish players), then after I was breaking even in the 180 man sng’s I contacted a coach. I have been +ev in the games ever since.

Best of luck.

The Riceman
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January 16, 2016 - 3:33 pm
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Btw I know you never mentioned being concerned with looking noob-ish, but it certainly was my experience and a reason I put off getting coaching. I ended up feeling like a noob in any case. Maybe it was just my hang-up!

The Riceman
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January 16, 2016 - 3:45 pm
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Sorry, one more thing that is important.

Getting coaching was without question the best investment I have made thus far in poker. So long as you have the funds in the short term, in the long term a good coach will not only end up costing you nothing, but will end up MAKING you a considerable ROI. I know this might be a “no sh*t Sherlock” point, but its so easy to look at the short term cost and forget the longer term result.

theginger45

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January 21, 2016 - 6:20 pm
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I get this question all the time (or some variant of it – “I don’t think I’m good enough for coaching yet”, etc) and I’m always surprised by it. The truth is that learning to play poker to a high standard is exactly like learning to do anything else to a high standard. There is no perfect time to get coached, and there is no minimum level of knowledge necessary to receive coaching. Somebody who has never played poker before could get coaching, and it would have the desired effect of improving their skill in playing poker…if the coach is able to adapt to their level of ability!

It’s my belief that the reason why the preconception exists that you have to have achieved a certain level of ability in order to be ‘good enough’ to get coaching is because in the early days of poker coaching (probably 2006-2008ish), most people involved in coaching had no teaching experience whatsoever, and as such were simply good poker players who were explaining their thoughts and actions as they play hands, and hoping people learned from it. This led to there being many beginner players who assumed that they had to reach a certain level in order to simply understand the points that coaches were making – the reason being that these coaches were unable to adapt their teaching style to fit players of a lower level.

Fast forward to today, and (not to toot my own horn too much, but…) some poker coaches do have teaching experience outside the game. They recognise that an adaptive teaching style is necessary, and that simply explaining your thought processes is not enough for most people. Poker coaching has begun to fall in line with other, more well-known forms of coaching, and these days literally anyone can get coached at poker if they can find the right coach.

Problem is, though, that the preconception still exists that you have to be ‘good enough’ to get coaching. It’s probably because people watch training videos, get confused and don’t understand them, and then assume that this represents what all coaching sessions are like, so therefore they must have to improve their knowledge of the game before getting coaching. That’s not the case at all – it’s like saying, “I was planning to take Japanese classes, but I don’t think my Japanese is good enough yet”. This statement only holds weight if there’s no Beginner class available!

It’s all about finding the right coach for you. If your coach can’t adapt to your ability level, he or she isn’t much of a coach at all.

P.S. Obviously it works both ways, too – if the coach provides an overly simplistic analysis that doesn’t actually help you, that’s equally bad. Hence, finding the right coach for you. Do your homework, talk to them beforehand, and if they can’t convince you they’re worth your time, they’re probably not.

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