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September 29, 2014
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Hi Y’all- need some advice here:
Live NLHE 1/3 7 handed. Hero/Me (UTG) stack $750. Villain (MP) stack $400. Villain is late 20’s flat cap hoody etc., only been at table for 1/2 hr so not much to read yet.
I raise to 12 UTG w KK. Villain makes it 25 from MP. We get 1 caller in the blinds and it’s back to me. Pot $64
I re-raise to 80 to try to iso. Villain shoves $375.
???
My thoughts: I think maybe my raise to 80 was too big? It made a min-raise by V $160, which almost commits him right there, so maybe he just shoved. I tanked, trying to find a way he would do this with QQ or AK. I had him covered easily. I couldn’t tell if he wanted a fold or if he smelled I had a big pair and was looking for value w AA. I just don’t see him doing this w QQ and obviously AK and KK is more unlikely w Hero holding KK.
Whats the play here?
Thx TPE
September 29, 2014
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Anyone? wow these forums are dead..
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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You’re right that it’s a rough spot. I wouldn’t fault a fold. More important to understand how you got into this bad spot though. You need a plan BEFORE you 4-bet. “To iso” isn’t a plan. What worse hands did you expect would call your 4-bet? What will you do if you face a shove? Your 4-bet size is fine, but of course any further raise V makes will be all in – even if you raised smaller that would/should be true – so you need to have a plan for that. If you think it will be a bad spot (as opposed to an easy call OR an easy fold) then you may want to just call the three-bet.
Think about your own range here and what incentives you are giving Villain. Why should Villain shove QQ or AK? How often are you folding after you make this 4-bet?
August 27, 2017
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Raising 6.6x looks like you just want to get the chips in. He may very well have AA, however I wouldn’t count out TT JJ QQ AKs AQs or even KK just yet. There is one hand that beats you, 5 that you are ahead of and 1 your chopping with. If he seemed like he knew what he was doing in previous hands, if you have much info on him at all, you would have to make a decision based off the physical tells. I know I personally would happily pile my chips in in this spot, although I’m no pro so I could very well be losing $400. How often are you gonna fold KK pre? Are you ever folding KK pre? This spot is quite possibly the only spot folding KK pre is viable, but I know myself personally and many other players couldn’t get it in fast enough.
Also, did you end up folding? Or did you get it in?
September 29, 2014
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Thanks for the replies! Foucalt: you’re right, I did not have a plan. I guess I was expecting a call or a fold, wasn’t expecting a shove lol. I was thinking most of his range would be calling or folding. I see calls w AK, QQ, JJ, TT, KQs, etc. I guess calling in that spot w KK is ok then too.
Dawson- I kind of ruled out TT, JJ, AQ,even AKo. Maybe I’m wrong, but I raised TWICE in the preflop action, and was pretty obvious (to me) that I had a legit hand of some kind. And yes I am probably saying lets get stacks in with my 4bet. I def was thinking sure lets get it in until the shove. Like Foucalt said, my “plan” was not really a plan. He seemed like a competent player, def a reg at this room (I’m not.) He started to count out the 5bet raise, then just said “I’m all in,” so I felt like he was pretty ready to raise/GII despite my action, or even because of it. His initial bet to 25 from 12 seemed to be fishing a bit too, as it’s pretty obvious I’m not folding a UTG raise to basically a 2x 3bet. He just seemed really strong to me.
I actually ended up folding. Never saw his hand. I’ve folded KK pre a couple times before but only in tournaments. I feel fine about it. But really wanted some other opinions on it because obviously it’s not something I liked doing.
Any more opinions greatly appreciated. But thx guys
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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Given your assumptions, I think 4-bet-folding is good. You get value from hands you’re ahead of (AKs, QQ, JJ, if they really do play this way) and can comfortably fold to a shove if AA is the only hand he shoves. Not saying you’re right or wrong about those assumptions (not really in a position to say), but if you’re comfortable with them, then I like your line.
September 29, 2014
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Of course hard to say about my assumptions, but just didn’t see anything but AA or KK in his 5bet shove range. And only one combo of KK left, so fold I did. Thanks for the opinions!
R
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