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Not sure where to put this rant so forgive me if its in the wrong fourum.
My issue is the recomandation to play micro stakes, i have studied and read poker regularly for a few years and
i cant make any sence out of those 1-5$ sng and tournaments. I never could and having been away from poker for a year i'd have to say its worse now
then ever. It just seems that every single time there is some “guy” calling you down with his J5o and hitting, or some other random crap.
I dont mind ppl being bad players, this game has a long and steep learing curve. Hell i can even live with me being a bad player, but these bordeline psycotic
plays ruin the game.
So the constructive part, i whant to learn the game propperly. I have a good job and make good money. since getting back to the game a few days ago i
have played about 30 sng sesions, most of them 1-2$ sng on FT. Being a “good student” i wanted to stick to the bankroll rules and play microstakes.
But my statment is NOONE can learn anything from playing those stakes. Its not poker, it most of the time makes no sence. Busted 4 times in a row once
having 87% chance of winning after the turn card acording to pokerstove.
And sure call it variance, or whatever you want but no matter what you chose to call it, it ruins the game. When there is no traceable logic or strategy its not fun.
Having been a member of another site and having a coach (NSXT2) for a while I have won a training site tourny and some other stuff. Great fun. playing with ppl who are students of the game works, its fun.
Anyway i then yesterday got the “ohh fu** this mentaity” and with my 50$ FT account loaded up an 11$ sng and low and behold its fun again. I enjoyed playing i could play poker wiith these ppl. I got 2 seconplaces at 27$ and one other sng secon for 33$.
Not whanting to be results oriented never mind the money or cashing. The game was fun, i could bust there in 4th place all day and still have fun cause its poker. I know i cant keep doing that, variance will kick in and kill my 50$ account.
But what do i do? Deposit 500$ and keep playing to learn? Or keep swiming the sea of crap in the microstakes untill i finaly quit the game for good.
Need some guidance….
Sorry for long rant and my bad NorwegianEnglish 
I beleive it was Johnny Bax who always stated that SNG's are not poker no matter what level you play at!
The things I think you can learn from playing at those stakes is “your game!” If you are not “result oriented” then you should be working on being happy with your decisions that you are making at the table no matter the outcome or what the other cards people are playing. You can only control “YOUR” moves and decisions, so strive to work on your game to the point you are making the correct ones. Then when you build your bankroll and move up your game will also be moving up.
Gabriel
I know someone who has the basic formula of winning as Q+Q+MA= winning
Quality + Quantity + Mental Attitude=winning
I Dont know your game so I cannot comment on the Quality part. If your here and learning from the pros I will expect it to be better than the majority.
30 SnG is not enough Quantity too judge for sure.. U need alot more of that.
Your Mental Attidude isnt there yet either just by the ranting of this post. Read the following link that should help some.
The micros are not impossible they are good cheap experience. And you only get out of them what you put into them. Its a good way to learn the brutally honest truth that this game is not SIMPLE.. Its hard thats why only 5%-10% of people are winning players in SnG's and tournaments.
Best of luck on and off the felts…
And as Napolean Hill would say.. Whatever the mind can conceive and believe the mind can achieve…
CireRensle
Sorry again for not making myself clear, im kindof a loudmouth. And i overstate things. 🙂 And im not trying to whine or complain about loosing, please take all my rants with wast quantitys of sarcasm and humor. I will try and refrain from
using my normal rant style.
I have no problem with loosing to learn, but there sould be a goal. Or a purpose to it. And now i feel like im not getting better, just more frustrated. To quote bigdog in one of the videos, it tilts me when i see some
of these players. It makes no sence. If you outplay me and i bust its perfectly ok, i dont mind. But when the general rule is loose by suckout then where is the learning.
I once agreed with my whife that i would spend 5k $ learning this game, or failling to learn it. Im now down about 2k so still some way to go.
My question is what am i supposed to learn from playing with “maniacs” that dont care about the game. Even just playing premiums its still a crapshoot.
If i go back and analyse a 26$ sng i feel that the plays makes a bit more sence, and that im learning somthing. Do the same with a 2$ sng its just and endless stream
of “something else”. (Im 37 year old loudmouth, trying not to use my normaly overstated language)
To be clear i have played about 1100 micro buyin SnG's over the years acording to sharcope. And i'm -359$ with avg buyin 4$.
Over 11.000 hands in pokertracker my stats are: (database was larger but i lost most of it)
VPIP: 16.52%
Raised preflop: 10.80%
| Username | Games Played | Av. Profit | Av. Stake | Av. ROI | Total Profit | Form | Ability /100 | Network | Filter | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Scruffyhead | 1.108 | $0 | $4 | -13% | -$395 | – | 54 | FullTilt | SNG Only | x |
| Scruffyhead | 1.448 | -$1 | $5 | -17% | -$2.016 | – | 53 | FullTilt |
Sincerly
Chris (my real name)
Norway
I read the article, its a good article. There are also may others that says the same thing in other words.
And im not special nor am i more unlucky then others. 🙂
Bad beats are a huge part of the game i know this.
And i never complain about bad beats to anyone. Tried that once to NSXT2 and he would not talk to me for a week 🙂
My point is simply at one point winning or loosing you have to progress to learn more?
Chris
The one thing that I try to do now (I withdrew all my money almost 2 years ago and just started playing again too) while playing micros is just work on my game like I said. I am trying to learn my pushing range better using poker stove, work on my decision making (which to me is the most important thing) and to work on everything I can to make MY game the best it can be. If you work on improving your game, the micros are a good place to do that. The decisions that you make are what should matter to you. I know its easier said than done to not be result oriented or to take the beats but it happens.
Gabriel
Good point aguilerag I see that one.
I guess for working on MY game using the micros and then TPE to talk about hands would work.
And completely disregarding the outcome of the hand. Just “did i play this right”
But for stuff like putting ppl on ranges and other traits, im lost in the micros.
Thanks
Chris
Me too Chris, me too. I have a hard time putting people on certain hand ranges too cause so many play anything. I still try but it is very hard.
October 6, 2010
Offline
think about it – how many times do you get it in as an 87% favourite and win? if you say that on average, 87% of the time, then ding ding ding, we have a winner.
BUT
87% of the time DOES NOT equal 100%. your aces will be cracked. lots of times. in a row. on the bubble.
as soon as you learn to accept this and just sigh and say oh well and load up another one, the better you will be.
speaking from personal experience, i used to go on super tilt and it meant for the past few years i was pretty much breakeven at the microstakes.
about 6 months ago i went on a real heater, followed by a similarly bad patch. but the difference was, that heater gave me confidence, so when i was copping the bad beats, it was more like meh, why should i let that affect me because i know i can crush these games, all i need to do is put in the required volume to do so and the profit will come. and as a result i was nearly 100% roi in MTTs for the second half of the year, and i had my best year by a long way.
so in short, as soon as you let the bad players start to affect you, your game will suffer and you will never improve
“The micro levels are just impossible.” I do herby retract my statement.
Thanks for the insight ppl. its been helpfull. Being able to play my game and trying to keep this thread in mind feels good.
Also like to mention bigdogpckt5s videos, there is somthing about the way you/he explain things that makes “more sence” then when others say the same thing.
The next few weeks will tell if its a temp fix for me, or if i can keep my anger in check.
This is the best site i have been a member of, and by a loong way.
Thanks again
Chris
'your aces will be cracked. lots of times. in a row. on the bubble. ' lol
“
|
'your aces will be cracked. lots of times. in a row. on the bubble. ' lol”
Then i'll punch a hole in my monitor, get electrecuted and die. But so what i played my hand right……… |
Havin a nice run 2$ sng turbos today. Played 11 won 4 and 3 3rd's…. And no desire to murder the world 🙂
A good giggle…. Started multitableing. 2-3 tables. Got HU on two tables agains the same player almost simultaniusly. Sometimes you are just not ment to win:)
(cant make the hand converter work sorry. just outputs nothing)
I dont know why but i found this hillarious… 😀 2 mins appart agains the same player. It also illustates what you are telling me.
Table1:
Full Tilt Poker Game #27781589078: $2 + $0.25 Sit & Go (Turbo) (215919850), Table 1 – 250/500 – No Limit Hold'em – 15:44:20 ET – 2011/01/31
Seat 2: moremoola2 (8,208)
Seat 8: Scruffyhead (5,292)
moremoola2 posts the small blind of 250
Scruffyhead posts the big blind of 500
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Scruffyhead [Qd Ad]
moremoola2 raises to 8,208, and is all in
Scruffyhead calls 4,792, and is all in
moremoola2 shows [8s 7h]
Scruffyhead shows [Qd Ad]
Uncalled bet of 2,916 returned to moremoola2
*** FLOP *** [5c 9s 7c]
*** TURN *** [5c 9s 7c] [5d]
*** RIVER *** [5c 9s 7c 5d] [9d]
moremoola2 shows two pair, Nines and Sevens
Scruffyhead shows two pair, Nines and Fives
moremoola2 wins the pot (10,584) with two pair, Nines and Sevens
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 10,584 | Rake 0
Board: [5c 9s 7c 5d 9d]
Seat 2: moremoola2 (small blind) showed [8s 7h] and won (10,584) with two pair, Nines and Sevens
Seat 8: Scruffyhead (big blind) showed [Qd Ad] and lost with two pair, Nines and Fives
Table 2
Full Tilt Poker Game #27781694228: $2 + $0.25 Sit & Go (Turbo) (215919745), Table 1 – 300/600 – No Limit Hold'em – 15:47:37 ET – 2011/01/31
Seat 1: moremoola2 (7,840)
Seat 2: Scruffyhead (5,660)
moremoola2 posts the small blind of 300
Scruffyhead posts the big blind of 600
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Scruffyhead [Ac 5s]
moremoola2 raises to 7,840, and is all in
Scruffyhead calls 5,060, and is all in
moremoola2 shows [As 4d]
Scruffyhead shows [Ac 5s]
Uncalled bet of 2,180 returned to moremoola2
*** FLOP *** [Tc 2c Ah]
*** TURN *** [Tc 2c Ah] [4h]
*** RIVER *** [Tc 2c Ah 4h] [Jc]
moremoola2 shows two pair, Aces and Fours
Scruffyhead shows a pair of Aces
moremoola2 wins the pot (11,320) with two pair, Aces and Fours
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 11,320 | Rake 0
Board: [Tc 2c Ah 4h Jc]
Seat 1: moremoola2 (small blind) showed [As 4d] and won (11,320) with two pair, Aces and Fours
Seat 2: Scruffyhead (big blind) showed [Ac 5s] and lost with a pair of Aces
SWEET!!!
I can tell you it took me over a year to get my first BIG micro win and two weeks later I won again. I never won a 180 plyer SNG, won a 90 man SNG.
Yes, there is plenty of bad play in the micro's, but you can also get a nice score if you are patient. I realize that's easier said then done.
I would say fix those few leaks you have in your game and you'll start seeing success. That's what I did and as of Nov/Dec '10 I'm +3k or so since…………..
Had a nice run in yesterday's Sunday Millions (was the chip leader during the middle stages,but went card dead for 3 hrs) then busto in 500 place or so.
Just have to be patient.
Pierre
Again, I hear what your saying.
I just got home at 11pm east coast time and grinded the 18k and 4k on stars. Finished 25th in the 18k and final tabled (4th) the 4k.
Just need patience, it will come.
Pierre
Since making my angry rant here i have made some realizations. Hard to explain but the game feels diferent.
My stats have changed also, im wonerding if its possible for some of you to take a look at them and see if they can
help me improve more?
My run at the 2$ turbos continues. Now at 36 games. 7 wins. 4 seconds, 4 thirds. WEEEEEEE
I promise no level of stakes is impossible to beat. If anything the micros are the easiest because you are gonna get it in good way more often due to the bad players. Work work work….this game goes deeper than any of us can imagine. So much to learn and improve on!
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