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Hey TPE,
I'm going through a rough patch now. Pokerstars chose to freeze my account for collusion, when I have never colluded. I will tell you my story, and please tell me what you think.
I recently met two people through video games, and they got into poker. The three of us quit video games, and I started teaching them the basics of the game through play money. I wasn't and still am not god at poker, but it was all in fun and games. When they were decent at the game, they decided to deposit real money onto their accounts.
I was grinding 3.50 fifty50s at the time, and they joined the same games. We never colluded, but we did review hand histories afterwards and discuss strategies. We never teamed up to try to get reads on regulars or anything similar. They just asked me questions about push/fold, and about calling ranges and I would attempt to help them.
So they got better and better, and finally they didn't need my help anymore. We started playing more and more, but we never shared our cards. I ended up busting them out of a few sit n gos, and they ended up busting me right back. Then, this morning, I tried logging into stars, and it said my account was frozen. I checked my inbox, and found an email saying they froze my account due to collusion. I looked at some of the hands they asked me about. 3 of them were misclick folds which happened to be against one of the guys I helped learn the game. I misclick A LOT. I 10 table, and I tick the fold box a lot, so I misclick fold around twice a day. Seems bad, but I have butterfingers.
Another hand they wanted me to explain was:
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter
BB: BB = 11.8, t1175
Hero (UTG): BB = 53.0, t5295
UTG+1: BB = 8.3, t835
MP: BB = 25.6, t2555
CO: BB = 25.9, t2585
BTN: BB = 17.3, t1730
SB: BB = 8.3, t825
Pre Flop: (t220) Hero is UTG with Q
5
Hero raises to t249, 5 folds, BB raises to t1165 all in, 1 fold
Final Pot: t618
BB wins t618
1. We're on the bubble
2. I'm trying to bully mid stacks
3. He has fold equity
4. I was opening every pot.
I really don't think it's fair that my account is frozen. What do you guys think? Do you reckon I will be unfrozen? I have $500 on my pokerstars account which I have grinded up from peanuts. I am devostated as of now that my account is frozen, and I really want to play again. This is giving me a whole lot of stress, and support in any way will be appreciated.
Thanks TPE,
Moizt
October 6, 2010
Offline
Question – why do you always play in games with your friends? That is just asking for trouble. And even though you didn’t explicitly collude, you can bet there is implied soft play going on. Even if you aren’t doing tht deliberately it will still happen. Why did you always play games with your friends in games where there is plenty of traffic, and also are known for collusion and hence will be watched closely.
I just enjoy playing against people I know. It adds thrill and I am very competitive, and so are they since we all come from a video game background. I guess it's stupid to play with people I know, and if I get unfrozen, I will never play with these guys again.
I guess it wasn't the smartest thing in the world to play against friends in sit n gos which are very collude-heavy. I'm not the brightest of guys after all.
Also, I've only played around 200 games with them. I've played 1.4k fifty50s without them. I didn't think it would be a big deal if we didn't collude, but apparently they noticed the similar styles, and maybe I might've softplayed them sometimes unconciously. I don't remember doing it if I did though.
I agree with Benny here
Just stay out of games with your friends – especially SnG's whether its the standard or 50 50's b/c like he said, although you may not actively tell them what you have or vice versa, you will have a subconsciously different thought process and line of play going on if you are in a hand with one of them.
MTT's with friends are fine though b/c the times you are at the same table as a mate in massive fields is miniscule
As for the Q5o hand – i'm def not a 50/50 specialist (in fact i've never played one) BUT if UTG+1 or SB reshoves it looks like you're easily priced in to call (calling 586 into 1304 is greater than 2:1)
Are you opening this hand with the intention of folding to everyone?
Regardless, i think you have probably been genuinely unlucky that you have helped some guys out and this has happened.
I hope you can prove your innocence and get back into the grind mate, i'd be pretty gutted if my account got frozen too.
GL
Thanks hape, I'll explain the hand with the Q5.
As you can see, there's two 9 big blind stacks. In a fifty50, 5 people cash, and there have to be 2 more eliminations for this to happen. When you get a double stack approaching the bubble, you want to put the agg on, as you get paid a certain amount of money per 100 chips you get. I like putting pressure on the mid stacks, as they're not looking to put their chips into the pot. Basically I'm opening into every stack except for the two shorties, to get more value. When the BB reships, I can easily conclude that he's not weak, as there's two short stacks, and his range should be pretty tight, even if I have been opening non stop. If you watch marc alioto's videos, you'll see that there's even arguments to fold ace kings, ace queens preflop in DONS. Fifty50s are very similar.
I hope I can get back on stars soon, this issue really is killing me inside.
In 50/50's, just like DoN's there are spots where your actions can look like collusion even if there isn't the intent (verbally planned) on your/your friends part. PS monitors the patterns and players involved and routinely lock accounts if they feel something is fishy.
Your only option is to answer the questions they have, hope they understand your reasoning and unlock your account…you really can't do anything else.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, and I am not for one minute accusing you of anything, but well done pokerstars. The last thing i would want when sitting down at a 50/50 or DoN is 3 friends who may or may not be colluding. Intentionally or not things like this bring the game into disrepute.
Just to clarify, because that probably did sound a bit harsh! I imagine that if you are taking the time to study, watch TPE videos and also post your concerns on here, then the intention was never to cheat, but pokerstars or none of your opponents could know that for sure and its good to know that they are on the ball for things like this….good job lock don't seem to be as aware or else bigdog and KB better be watching out after KB clearly 'allowed' bigdog to put him in the cage in the new video!
Pkingoflimbs1 said:
Sorry if this sounds harsh, and I am not for one minute accusing you of anything, but well done pokerstars. The last thing i would want when sitting down at a 50/50 or DoN is 3 friends who may or may not be colluding. Intentionally or not things like this bring the game into disrepute.
Harsh bro. 😉
I sent pokerstars a email explaining the hands they wanted to know, and I hope I will get my account back. Yeah, it's dumb to play with friends, and I assured them that I would table-select and only play with unknowns and regulars.
We never colluded, we never will. They're just two people I brought into the games, and we play at the same games without sharing hands. I wasn't aware this was an offense, but I really regret playing with them now, obviously. I'm really gutted about this, so I hope all can be forgiven.
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