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Am I unlucky or making bad shoves? Come Take the Gman Challenge and find out!
lespaulgman
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October 12, 2010 - 3:35 pm
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Okay, so here is the deal. So many players complain about getting their money in good and being unlucky all the time. What I am proposing is doing a little recording and trying to prove are you really unlucky or are you making bad shoves/picking bad spots. This is something I am going to do to help determine if I am shoving/calling all-ins correctly and I invite anyone who wants to answer the same question to join in. I will use this entry to post the results weekly so if folks are interested in how it works or how I am tracking you can follow along. If you want to do it here is how it will work:

 

1. Record your hand and any opponents hands when you are involved all-in preflop

2. Record the total size of the pot and the amount you put into the pot

3. Record the result of the hand (i.e. won or lost and total amount won/lost)

4. Take the hands and put them into Pokerstove to determine your equity in the hand

5. Calculate the expected value for the hand. EV = (%Win * Total Pot) – (%Lose * Total Invested)

6. Compare the EV vs. actual results. As time goes by the values should harmonize (over a large enough sample size). If the EV is negative, then I have a leak and need to work on my shove/call range. If my EV is slightly positive to neutral, same leak. If my EV is overwhelming positive I are getting my money in good, and it will even out over time (i.e. luck/variance).

 

So here it is, an objective mathematical methodology for determining luck vs. leak. I invite the TPE community to join in and see how your doing with me. Stay tuned for results!

 

Lespaulgman cool

mistergj
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October 12, 2010 - 3:54 pm
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Great idea, Gman!

lespaulgman
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October 12, 2010 - 4:02 pm
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mistergj said:

Great idea, Gman!


 

Gotta sign up! Come on be the first, take the Challenge!! It isn't quite as glamours as the Durrrrr challenge, but it is useful!

mistergj
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October 12, 2010 - 4:41 pm
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On reflection, this is going to be quite difficult do. When we call all-ins we have to estimate a range that villain is shoving and we can never be spot on and sometimes we don't know if we just caught the top of that range or this particular villain would only shove hands as strong as that with that many chips and in that position. Also, when working out if our shoves are correct we have to estimate our opponents' calling range, which again we can never be sure of. Making correct shoves works on the principal that opponents need a much stronger hand to call than to shove in the first place and most players call much too tightly, which means most of the time we will only ever be called by hands that we are behind or flipping with. I don't feel we can be results oriented as suggested (Record your hand and any opponents hands when you are involved all-in preflop), but work on the principal of working out opponents' ranges better. It might be a better idea to work out the times when you get it in good (99 vs 87s, AK vs AQ even AA vs 22) and lose and getting it in bad (A6 vs AT, 55 vs 99) and win and then working out if you're EV = the number of chips you make… although having said that you're only really working out if you're running good/bad. I've started to confuse myself now so I'm going to stop writing and come back to this with a fresh mind tomorrow.

BBird40
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October 13, 2010 - 12:18 pm
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I can do this LPG…just remind in the chat from time to time when we play together to post here. I hardly ever look in this sub-thread

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